[Jim]

Doesn't strike me as necassarily overgraded, just contrived and uninspiring.

Strikes me as all 3 tbh

[north_country_boy]

I'd agree with Contrived.

[SA Chris]

Not sure how anything on Dumbarton Rock can be uninspiring?

[Jim]

I think its the fact that it is a complete blinkers route that makes it uninspiring. It wouldn't be out of place as a boulder problem at hobson moor (or minus 10 for you peakies)

What you do is climb 3/4 of the way up this amazing line, then take hold 24 LH, 17 RH, feet on smears only etc....

[cowboyhat]

I think its the fact that it is a complete blinkers route that makes it uninspiring. It wouldn't be out of place as a boulder problem at hobson moor (or minus 10 for you peakies)

What you do is climb 3/4 of the way up this amazing line, then take hold 24 LH, 17 RH, feet on smears only etc....

I know what to get you for christmas;

[SA Chris]

What you do is climb 3/4 of the way up this amazing line, then take hold 24 LH, 17 RH, feet on smears only etc....

.... and that is toss. Have you ever had a look at the Rock (and I don't meant the "wrestler")? while it is an eliminate, the lines are far enough apart to be reasonably independant.

[Jim]

I watched E11 not so long ago, thought it was quite good tbh.

I've climbed at dumbarton a few times and the headwall is very impressive IMHO, its just that this is touted as the hardest traditional rock climb when its just an eliminate and probably overgraded.

[Tommy G]

I'm sure the debate about the grade of this will rumble on until more poeple have done it!

However i am sure that Dave Mac was just speculating with what he thought.
It is easy to see where it comes from when considering that Equilibrium is rated at 8b+ in a dangerous situation!

at the garde of 8c/+ it is also potential full 7 grades harder than some E9's which rate about F7c.

[Tommy G]

Sorry that should say 7 grades harder not 'full grades' 

[saltbeef]

saw steve at the wall last week, he was complaining about  a pulley injury. wish i was that good when i was injured.

[Control freak]

This topo has been posted on UKC



Does anyone know if this is right?? - from the looks of things here, direquiem meanders as much as rhapsody does

[SA Chris]

I woudn't know, but the lines seem reasonably independent, as stated previously.

James?

[Jaspersharpe]

http://www.climbmagazine.com/SteMacRhapsodyComments.aspx

Well there you go. Eliminate? Yes. Inspiring? Well that's down to personal preference. Overgraded? Not according to the bloke most qualified to comment.

[SA Chris]

That's a great photo.

[north_country_boy]

yeah the photo with lines of routes is correct. Anyone operating around the french grade level of Requiem should try this route and give it the attention it deserves, amazing achievement by Cubby in 1983!!!

[Danny]

Doesn't strike me as necassarily overgraded, just contrived and uninspiring.

Strikes me as all 3 tbh

Strikes me as a good description of many hard grit 'classics'

Grit routes are often escapable / contrived and generally lacking any wow factor, imo.

But hey, who am I to judge?

[Johnny Brown]

Many? No. Some? Yes, certainly recently. None have had half this level of media attention though, which is the context this comment needs taking in.

I can believe the headwall is foreshortened in that topo photo but it looks like an indirect finish about 20-25 foot long. Requiem is undeniably a classic line, this isn't.

[IanP]

Many? No. Some? Yes, certainly recently. None have had half this level of media attention though, which is the context this comment needs taking in.

Going back some time Equilibrium hasd masses of attention, and more recently Cratcliffe Groove has had the odd magazine page and forum post.

I can believe the headwall is foreshortened in that topo photo but it looks like an indirect finish about 20-25 foot long. Requiem is undeniably a classic line, this isn't.

Quite possibly true but Dave Mac gave it a very big grade which together with his seemingly fairly straightforward repeats of a number of big name routes in Lakes, Wales and Ireland ends up with it being a very newsworthy route.  Add to that a foreign star coming over to spend a month to repeat it and Steve Mac making mincemeat of it and you have a big story imo.

[Fiend]

Couple of things about this...

Dumbarton main face IS a very impressive sheet of rock. Sure it's not Cloggy, but ignoring the setting / neds / graffiti / etc, and just taking that sheet of rock, it is a fine a bit of rock as anywhere. That I believe is part of it's appeal. Quick drying and super-easy access helps.

The line of Rhapsody, if you look at it you can see Dave Mac's concept there. He was clearly aiming to climb to the highest point of the main face by the most-independent-from-Requiem line he could, and making the use out of that bit of rock. Direquiem probably isn't as independent from Requiem as he wanted (leaves it later), CopOut doesn't go all the way to the summit of the face, so Rhapsody, although not the ideal line, was the best he could do with that bit of rock to get the most climbing out of it.

As far as the repeats and attention goes, I think another part of the lure is the style of the route, as Steve Mac says: Very hard climbing (for trad), a fair way up, above a huge but relatively safe fall. It's a rare-ish combination which allows a good head-game without too much real danger, you can see why fit Canadians and F9a+ sport climbers would be drawn to it rather than to Indian Face or If 6 Was 9 or To Hell And Back.

[Johnny Brown]

I understand perfectly why it is getting so much media attention, I just think its a shame its not a more striking or independent line that the world are wetting their pants over. Dave is clearly under no illusions about this judging by the for 'locals... with nice moves' comments on his blog.

[r-man]

It's always great when the next big grade is immortalised by a line so visually awesome that even daring to consider it gets an E number.

However, it says a lot about climbers and the nature of the obsession that if there is a challenge, people will embrace it... In that respect, it's a victory for the spirit of climbing. Aesthetics aren't everything, and sometimes people make too much of them. Dave, Sonnie and Steve have all been seduced by the movement, the difficulty and the hardest route in the UK. I think that's great. Rhapsody might not be the most visually appealing thing, but it's clearly got character*.

It's only recently that trad has taken steps to catch up with sport (perhaps in onsight terms it is still way behind?), but Rhapsody seems to be the first British route in recent times to have significantly raised the bar. And with Steve's repeat, possibly the first time in a long time a world-class climber has dabbled in cutting edge trad?

Why climb? Because it's there hard...?





*Though I have to admit, I'm not really interested in seeing yet more footage of a climb that has already been covered in every minute detail on the E11 film.

[dave]

I'm just amazed that, rightly or wrongly, no-one seems to have yet used the pun "Crapsody". I'm willing be corrected though.

[Jaspersharpe]

And with Steve's repeat, possibly the first in a long time a world-class climber has dabbled in cutting edge trad?

Might Tommy Caldwell have something to say about that?

[r-man]

I dunno. Has Tommy climbed several 9a+'s?

Perhaps I should have said world-class sport climber, to avoid confusion.

[dave]

Tommy Caldwell has certainly dabbled with the cutting edge (ouch!).