[Paul B]

I think we got the sequence worked out however it felt pretty tricky (a little warm I think) so I thought it best to check:

RH Good hold/pockety undercut
LH flat edge
LH Really poor edge (taller people pull on with this for their left I think, the pic in TPOC seems to have moon using this instead of the next hold  )
LH obvious small crimp
RH slopey block
Left foot  high
LH undercut/sidepull
Right foot step underneath left, left foot further out and up? (fall off)
Right hand to small gaston thing, maybe match up with the left but after this it seems in the bag.

Does this sound about right?

[dobbin]

I was thinking about this on the way to work this morning, and I think where I stepped RF under, LF off onto rubbish smear, I should perhaps have tried LF higher on Paul B patent pending edge thing and then tried. This would set you up better for teetering to the good hold by the dogging bolt.

What a pearl of a route!

[dave]

I think shabba ranks must have some beta on this cos he tried it the other year a bit. I can't remember any of it though.

[Jaspersharpe]

Can't help with specific beta as it's lost in the mists of time but I do remember that it's a bloody great little route and no gift at the grade. I don't recall any trickery so you're probably on the right track.

[Paul B]

As we're a pair of sequence idiots it seemed wise to ask. By the time we worked out the footwork I think we'd both had it. I didn't really realize how tired I was until I got back home....Followed by more excuses etc. 

[Dolly]

What font bouldering grade would you give it do you reckon ?

[Paul B]

I wouldn't its a route  . To be honest i'm not the person to ask.

[Ru]

My sequence:

Pull on with right hand in sidepull/pocket and make a big move with your left hand to a positive crimp. Tart your feet about and get the horizontal pinch with your right hand. Left foot goes high onto a small edge/tiny thin pocket with boot rubber round it. Left hand to undercut. Either flag your right foot, or smear below your left foot, which stays where it is, to get a small crimp with your right. I think I then matched on another small crimp, and rock rightwards to get an undercut pod with right hand. I can't remember after this, but the holds get bigger.

[Paul B]

Is the small crimp you talk of a kind of gaston or sharp thumb catch with a vague crimp just next to it? if it's not I haven't a clue where you mean. Also can't remember any u/cut pod but maybe dobbin will.

[Ru]

yes that's the crimp.

[Doylo]

What font bouldering grade would you give it do you reckon ?

mawson reckoned it was round the 7c mark. hard 8a route

[fatdoc]

What font bouldering grade would you give it do you reckon ?

it's WELL up your street, hard & short... not too skin damaging... and if i remember a crucial reach once you've stepped through....

[The Sausage]

I had a brief go on this last year, as did ted. Your sequence sounds about the same as we were trying. Definitely the hardest 8a I've been on. I know it's only a short hard sequence, but it felt miles harder than (say) reve d'un papillon, which is pretty tough for the grade. I'm not suggesting an upgrade mind, but routes like this remind us what 8a should be...

[Bonjoy]

routes like this remind us what 8a should be...

...40m jugfests with lots of tufas and kneebars 

[Dolly]

it's WELL up your street, hard & short... not too skin damaging... and if i remember a crucial reach once you've stepped through....

I'm going down 2 tier tomorrow so I'll have a proper look (from the ground of course

[north_country_boy]

Tried this briefly a month or so ago, and I'd second Mr Mawson's notion of Font 7c, certainly at least hard 7b+, very awkward moves and conditions make a big difference I suspect, would suggest bouldering it out over mats would be the way forward as dogging on a rope isn't the easiest

[Paul B]

Yeah i'd second that, maybe not even bother clipping until the 3rd? (or 2nd if you ignore the old bolt thats in), the rope tends to make it hard to dog back on as you're to0 far out.
My instinct was around Fnt 7b+ (shite at grading things mind you) but definitely conditions dependent. I went back down Cheedale last night for a wander and the starting holds were getting worse!

[fatdoc]

I had a brief go on this last year, as did ted. Your sequence sounds about the same as we were trying. Definitely the hardest 8a I've been on. I know it's only a short hard sequence, but it felt miles harder than (say) reve d'un papillon, which is pretty tough for the grade. I'm not suggesting an upgrade mind, but routes like this remind us what 8a should be...

sorry, i have no up to date guide..
you're not serious it only gets 8a??


christ, it's soo peak 8a+. amd was so when 1st done.

when it was done it threw off all but the + climbers.. and then did so for years. it's as hard as chimes for sure, and IMO same as caviar (similar length)


there is no way this is only 8a. totally.

it took john ages for the 1st ascent, at the time (and now TBH) he sent 8as with near ease.

although short and specific if this gets only 8a now it's yet another example of the peak grade conumdrum... get it hard.. keep it down.

BTW, i fully admitt to not having redpointed it. not for want of trying mind (for 2 weeks solid about 12 years ago!)

[The Sausage]

It would be interesting to get a general consensus. I feel that pretty solid on most 8a's I've tried, but this did feel particularly hard. I only spent had a short session on it mind. It certainly makes routes like Out of my Tree seem a joke at 8a.

[Paul B]

it took john ages for the 1st ascent, at the time (and now TBH) he sent 8as with near ease.

Isn't it a chris gore route FA 1990?

I'm far from on form at the minute but compared to my memories of other bouldery peak 8a's I think this easily warrants a +...In fact the first thing I did when I got back was check the rockfax DB to see if it had settled at a higher consensus grade at which it hadn't. I also found out today that Vickers onsighted it, which is a good effort.

[fatdoc]

err.....

yeah. i apologise, still the same route I was thinking off though. still think it's a fairly stiff proposition... hell, i dont do routes no more and my mind is clearly failing. sorry.

[Andy Harris]

Personally I'd put Entree in at 8a+. It's just too damn hard for 8a. I'd agree with boulder grade of solid 7c and very fingery at it. Similar to Culloden, PUTP. Remember PUTP got graded 8a for years until it was upgraded.

Chris Gore was mighty strong of the crimp.

[Ru]

These short things are hard to grade. It's a bit harder than Baby Chimes, but not harder than the full thing. OOMT must be bottom end 8a? I reckon it's easier than short Peak 8a+s like PUTP, Masculine Power Trip, Gonads. Maybe Gonads is a bit too long for this category. It's also easier than The Inch Test, which should get 8a+ but doesn't. It's at least a full grade, if not more, easier than Love of Money.

[Paul B]

I still would say its harder than:
The sissy
Dangerous Bro's
Salar
R & H
Which are all fairly bouldery routes although I know Salar's grade is always debated.

[The Sausage]

My view is that it's always important to have proper sandbags, not only for visiting climbers, but also to stop the inevitable grade creep and to keep us all humble. There's something very un-twenty first century about having to put more effort in for less reward that makes the whole process wierdly satisfying.

[north_country_boy]

Its a damn sight harder than Baby Chimes! Can't really compare it to full chimes as the top of chimes is piss if you have the ability to recover on the massive jugs!!!

It certainly seems a sandbag at 8a, but must say i agree with The Sausage about grade creep....

[dobbin]

I think its hard for 8a. But then I havent done it so my point of view is based soley on having found plenty of short 8a's quite steady, and this is anything but steady.

Getting back to Ru's sequence, I know the pod he is on about, its far out right. I fettled at it, but dismissed it as the work of a mad man. Perhaps this is why I didnt get any further.

[dobbin]

Ted crushed this yesterday. I split a tip but we managed to bust a new sequence : from the undercut, put rf and drop knee to take gaston, left hand to two finger dish just up and right and then rh back to gaston in pod out right. lh to tooth by dogging bolt, rh pocket, lh sloper, build feet, lh edge, lh again to notch. Done. NIce one ted.

[Bonjoy]

8a or 8a+? I noticed Ted went for 8a on his scorecard. Is it really easier than Caviar? Maybe I should give it another go.

[dave]

8a? he didn't flash it though.

[dobbin]

Harder than HFC, but easier than Caviar (with new beta!). Given that it packs it in to the first 10ft its got to have some hard moves in it. Easier than PUTP. Horses for courses innit.

[uptown]

I remember a couple of egyptians helped for me, and getting there early to beat the sun. It was 8a+ in the peak supplement from 1991, though hard 8a (font 7c) seems right for me. Theres a great picture of Ben on it in TPOC - I particularly like Seans NZ hairstyle of the day!