Franco's ground up ascent of The Young at Callaly (Read 11865 times)


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Ground up is an ironic label when the reality so often involves grinding down.

Ground Down from the Ground Up
« Last Edit: April 09, 2019, 01:15:05 pm by petejh »


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As Teaboy says the impressive thing had been done and it is a different proposition now.

Yes he will have improved his style if he goes back, pretty fundamentally as he will actually have done the route.

He wonít have ground upped Ďthe youngí because he has already climbed the top via an alternate route. He has already practiced those moves so he canít do the route ground up.

Indulge me- I'm genuinely confused here.  Does it matter if he climbed part of the route previously? If the upper section was previously achieved ground up, it's still ground up now, surely? It's just ground up in a different order on different days.

That's a similar distinction to onsight vs flash, but it still retains the ethic of from the ground only. Or do you feel that ground up must be in the natural sequence from the ground on that day?

I agree he will have climbed that bit of rock ground up for sure, but as I said he has already done this. Will he have done the young ground up? No, he will have done the top from a VS, not the ground. What if he abed down to that rest on the VS and went from there? Would basically be the same.

Yes itís semantics but if we bother having a language about climbing we might as well be talking about actual routes and not just bits of rock. Otherwise Iíll just go and walk from underneath the route around the back to the top and claim it ground up.

Johnny Brown

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Whilst this is certainly true it also obscures the fact that GU can be a very fine second best. Some of my best and most satisfying efforts have been GU ascents.

Yeah I agree, aspire wasn't the right word.

I think intent plays a big part in style and those who want a tick rather than aspire to an experience will sometimes subvert what we tend to feel the definitions should mean.

But overall I think it's worth trying to preserve the original, self-explanatory meanings of the terms. So onsight should mean primarily without prior knowledge, flash first go, ground-up means just that (yes even for you Will).


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I would say definitely not.

I also don’t think he ‘should’ do anything.

Completely agree. Seems pretty obvious to me.

Still applaud the effort.

Edit: Quality thread this, isn't it? Some fantastic contributions from everyone.


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I feel the most important part of this debate has been cruelly overlooked.... This particular work of style-of-ascent genius:

Then of course, there are those who don't care and have no scruples. My favourite UKC logbook entry is dunnyg' (of this Parish) entry for WYSIWYG:

TR dnf
Got to the big jug, before it goes off left,puddle in it, pinged off. Good up until then.

Lead dog
Bolt to bolt to start. Got it wired. One tricky move! 3 lead attempts.

Lead (flash)
yay. felt like poo. clipsticked up, then lead it. Easy for 7b.

I hope that's deliberate.

Will Hunt

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It's the "easy for 7b" bit at the end which gets me.


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I sent my report to ukc but it never got published. I never heard back from 5.10 or moon climbing either, in fact, if someone could give ben a nidge when they next see him I could do with a new bouldering pad.#climbingismypassion #blessed