[james]

Right, I cant get any sense out of CT so I will ask on here even though it is just a tad to high to be considered bouldering .
Does anyone know how high the Indian Face is.  I want to put a rope on it tomorrow but I dont know if a single length will do will do.  Also if anyone has a picture that would be great.
Cheers

James

[dave]

I doubt a single 50/60m rope will be sufficient, unless your belayer sits on the top. Bear in mind dawes worked it on abseil alone. Its probably not much shy of 45/50m.

[Avoiding the Traitor]

Been told it was about 45 metres high.

I was making senses on CT!

[james]

Thanks for that.  Sorry craggers, I didnt see your posts.  They do make sense.
Cheers

James

[Avoiding the Traitor]

And again other advise.

Bring your other pant with you, again was told - easily shitting yourself just looking at it.

[james]

ok will do.  The real scary thing is going to be hanging over the edge belaying all day  :shock:
Cheers

James

[Johnny Brown]

I reckon a man of your talent should save it for the onsight. Improving at your current rate, in five years or so you should piss it.

Seriously, there are a few routes I am really pissed of I top roped when I was your age. They would have made great onsights. And I did very little toproping. Some of my mates will struggle to ever onsight E7 cos they headpointed all the obvious ones when they were young and desperate to be an E7 climber.

Bear in mind as well that what Johnny's 'toproping' actually consisted of. Basically trying moves whilst hanging on an ab rope. Not the same as doing it in one five times in a row before committing to the lead. That goes for gaia and most of his other hard leads.
I'm not trying to biog the guy up too much but its a fact that 15 years on almost none of his routes have been done in better style than he used. To me that makes the repeats pretty worthless.

[dave]

I agree. If you're going to walk all the way op there better to consolidae your onsighting by doing like great wall or something.

I've only really toproped a couple of things that i coulnd't do on toprope in bad conditions and now deeply regret cos they are onsightable routes i'm now robbed of (entropy's jaw an kaluza klein). was stupid to even get on them in the first place given i was only doing E2 at the time....

[Bubba]

What style was Gresham's ascent in?

I think JohnnyBrown is talking sense here - why not save it for the first onsight which would really move the game on? I remember that Adam Wainright flashed it on toprope years ago - if you did that, wouldn't it just be a waste?

Having said that, I think your mental to even be considering it  :wink:

[james]

It is one of my friends who is getting on it.  I am just belaying him.   I dont think there is much chance of me seeing any of the moves from up there, I will probably be to scared to open my eyes.
Cheers

James

[Avoiding the Traitor]

Interesting read

http://www.planetfear.com/climbing/features/profiles/neilgresham/neilgresham3.htm

Don't have Airlie as your belayer!!  :shock:

[Bubba]

I hate belaying people on things where they might really hurt themselves, so I can understand Airlie being a bit stressed out.

How many people have done IF now?

[hongkongstuey]

still only three i think

[dave]

yeah, dawes, gresham and dixon innit.

in that article about NG says summert about death of Rachel Farmer. I keep reading things that make refference to this, but i think it was before i started climbing, so whats the crack? I'm not trying to be morbid or anythingm just genuinley wanna know what the story is.

[Bubba]

Airlie was with Rachel Farmer, traversing an easy ledge at Buoux.

Rachel tragically slipped and took a huge groundfall, dying shortly afterwards. A very very sad thing to happen  :cry:

[dave]

cheers for filling me in - thats pretty bad.

[dobbin]

She was awesome too, first British woman to F8a (Raindogs) and quite a looker at that. What she was doing with an old dog like Gresham I do not know  :wink:

[james]

This is a long shot.  I have looked online but cant find any info on how to find it.  Can anyone give me directions on how to find it.  I have a guide of the quaries but not one that is upto date enough.
Cheers

James

[dave]

quarries? :?

Indian Face is at Cloggy, or did i miss something....

[james]

I havnt got a clue where it is.  That is why I am asking .  Where is cloggy?  Dont laugh I am only young
Cheers

James

[Avoiding the Traitor]

Have u tried this?

http://www.hotpud.com/ukroutes/RouteStats?i=27283

Got a link of the map where it is exactly.

[james]

thanks again.  I hadnt seen that.  Now all I need is to find out which route it is
Cheers

James

[dave]

if you're serious about trying the route, or your mate is, i seriously recomend buying the guidebook. Not only are you attempting one of the most serious route on british rock, if you also don't know where the crag is, or where the routes is then the odds are not stackewd in your favour. Get the cloggy guide from outside in the pass, and expect a 1 hour walk to the crag.

ALos worth remembering that james mchafie tried onsighting masters wall from an old copy of the guidebook, got off route somewher between masters wall and indian face, had to untie, drop the rope and wait (45mins?)on small holds (finger bleading?) for his belayer to go round the top and drop an ab rope, then it was in the wrong place so waited some more for it to be dropped again, clipped into the ab rope badly and took a massive slide down the rope till he stopped. What i'm trying to say i cloggy is a seriously bad place to get anything wrong, be it routefinding or anything. its not like going to burbage and chucking a rope down parthian shot, this is serious shit!

[dave]

see the little red dot in the middle of the face - thats patch hammond on great wall. Indian face goes soemwhere up the blank wall to the right of them. Not sure of the line, or where it goes at the top.

[james]

cheers dave

[Bubba]

Great photo - was trying to find one similar - read The Dawes account here:

http://www.johnnydawes.com/Indian_Face.htm

I think James McHafie was stranded for something like 4 hourse. Bet his feet ached.

Yeah, these routes ain't no joke - I always remember reading about John Redhead in tears as he comtemplated the jump 80ft to the scree below when he thought he'd blown it. Errr...Thanks, but no thanks.

[dave]

wasn't it also mchafie's dad who did the infamous boxing-gloves-and-rollerscates stunt on little cham? must be something in the water.

[Adam Lincoln]

thanks again.  I hadnt seen that.  Now all I need is to find out which route it is
Cheers

James

You should have asked me yesterday, id have drawn you a map!

Who's going for it, Justin?

[james]

Justin is still in corfu.
Keith wants to have a look.  He wants to be famous and I want to make the most of my last days off school so everyones a winner.
Is there anyway of getting a topo to me?  Could you scan one in and email it?
Cheers

James

[dave]

just but the guide. You'll almost certainly be driving past outside and joe borwn in llanberis anyway, only a few quid and you've got a great bit of history. Probably worth buy for the indian face routes description alone (a work of art in itself!), i think it takes up 4 pages, the longest of any route in britain (the the possible exception of the stanage girdle).

[Rhys]

Before he sets up on this he may want to consider a few things first. I think this is a special route, one with a lot of history- your mate might want to do a little research first, there is a thought provoking article in Redhead's 'One for the crow'- it should give a background to the route, there is also Jonny Dawes' essay on it (I think it's already been mentioned here), and you can find a transcript of a radio programe featuring Dawes and Redhead by this link- www.therockzone.co.uk/therockzone/rock1.html (just go to the transcript.)

I don't want to sound a bit wierd but I think some routes are special and should be treated as such. When you know some of the history and torment behind this route you may agree, I think it should wait for an onsight or not have a further ascent at all. I certainly don't think it should be done just for fame.

Sorry if this is patronising- I don't mean it to be, but by setting off up it without knowing anything about it I think you might be missing part of the experience- possibly on the onsight one day in the future. Anyway, hope you have a great day out on Cloggy- there are so many good routes there you're bound to have a memorable experience!

[hongkongstuey]

I think it should wait for an onsight or not have a further ascent at all. etc. etc.

i think people should climb it however they want (in a not damaging the rock kinda way) and take it away as a personal memory

although, have to say i'm with Nick Dixon on this one - the route would kill you if you fluffed it - which most people who inspected it / TR'd it first seem to have almost done on their ascents!, so i'd take the cautious approach (but i'm a bolt clipping wuss these days so thats no suprise)

i'd have to be running laps on Masters Wall before even contemplating the onsight on it

i agree with what Johnny said about blowing the onsight of some great routes by hopping on them on a rope when i was young and eager for big grades but you've got to improve the grade somehow and there comes a point where pushing it out becomes too damn dangerous

i'd definitely buy the man (or woman - after all, its crimpy slab/face climbing aint it) who onsights it a beer or two though (shortly before they locked them up in a psyciatric ward!)

[Paz]

There was a rare good post on the other place a while ago from someone in the know about what it would take to onsight IF.  It was a bit of a Dawes-esque ramble, but quite inspiring, basically reckoned you want to climb a lot on that cliff, to get to know the rock.  It does have it's own feel, even from the easier routes.  It's like High Tor, you want to do every classic thing on it,in order, it's an awesome tick list of routes.  In Dave's photo, the left wards slanting break is more or less where the route ends, and the blue dot is a guy on the top bit of one of the routes between November, or Vember, E1 - E3 ish.  McHaffie got lost cos Masters and IF have the same start, then (don't quote me) masters traverses right then up, and IF goes left then up, where as he went straight up.  It's a long way out of my league but having done other routes on the cliff (admittedly easier drainage lines or White Slab on the west buttress which has a different character to East Buttress qwhere IF is) a precaution I'd take is to get a mate to ab down and maybe clean the holds a bit.  Vickers had this done for him before he onsighted Linden.  It would be easier with chalked holds though.  I know it's nominally given a relatively modest top rope sport grade, so the physical ability is out there to go for the onsight, but the moves sound hard to get first time and working out where the fuck it goes while hanging on... Still doesn't Dawes mention some rest and didn't Leo flash the masters wall part of it in baggy rock boots before he was weened on to solids?  If your mates still game I wouldn't take any fucking guff from anyone about beta.  If you read all the information available to you, it's just sensible, it's part of knowing the history and having awe and respect for the route.  And it's some of the most wonderful climbing prose ever written.

[Paz]

Bollocks he posted yesterday so he's probably gone already hasn't he?

[james]

No we didnt go. Keith was being silly, long story, and it was all a bit to rushed.  We are going to have a look at it this weekend.  Thanks for all the info it is much apreciated.  As for the onsite, it may happen sooner than you think.
Cheers

James