[dave]

With the low bolt in place it makes the route fairly feasible as a ground-up flash/onsight

quick show of hands everyone who did kudos (easy or hard) first go? anybody, no?

[Kingy]

Neil Carson flashed it in the 90's but I guess if you have done the boulder problem before its not a flash if you make it to the top.

[travs]

Yeah but everyone who did Kudos originally had to do the font 7c start and that would have been a very hard flash. I think with the easier start it's definitely flashable and so Bonjoy is correct in bolting it accordingly.

[Kingy]

Yeah but everyone who did Kudos originally had to do the font 7c start and that would have been a very hard flash. I think with the easier start it's definitely flashable and so Bonjoy is correct in bolting it accordingly.

Just wondered, was it possible for people to do the Easy Way back in the day when doing the route or did this not exist? When was Easy way using the RH sidepull first done? Is the route much of an easier 8a using this method?

[travs]

Absolutely, you're talking about swapping a 7c start on a polished foothold with a 7a+ start on positive footholds, at the time it was about the hardest move at Rubicon and didn't get a lot of quick repeats. Also don't forget the new ledge of hand holds which has appeared. I can't remember for sure but I think it might have been Mr Sharples who came up with the easy way.

[Bonjoy]

 I think Ryan Pasquill has also flashed it

[Kingy]

Absolutely, you're talking about swapping a 7c start on a polished foothold with a 7a+ start on positive footholds, at the time it was about the hardest move at Rubicon and didn't get a lot of quick repeats. Also don't forget the new ledge of hand holds which has appeared. I can't remember for sure but I think it might have been Mr Sharples who came up with the easy way.

Interesting. Yes its got to be a fair bit easier with the 7a+ way. I ain't properly tried the 7c way but it looks pretty horrendous! I suppose the polish on that left foothold on the rockover method might have got worse since the 80's to compensate a bit for doing the route the easy way.  Maybe the easy way has got even easier with the appearance of the big footledge? 

[dave]

OK lets take the number of people who've flashed this boulder problem, then factor into that the percentage who will be attempting to flash the boulder problem with the intention of carrying on up the route (a much smaller fraction), then factor in percentage of those who will be up to flashing bouldery 8a routes but haven't brought with them either a bouldering mat or clipstick, or can't borrow one temporarily from someone else at the crag, and my guess is that now we're looking at a very very small number of people. so on the whole i'd not be worrying about the first bolt.

ted, its my impression that the "easy" (actually harder) way is only possible with the jug ledge in place - or maybe it woudl be possible but would be deffo much harder than any other beta. and also bear in mind that the current state of the "easy" sidepull is not as great as it once was. didn't the route used to be 8a+ with the very hard original start?

I know the existence of the jug ledge has been debated on here and someone said that originally only the very right hand end was there, but even that is in doubt compared to what Harris reconed, that none of it was there.

[Kingy]

ted, its my impression that the "easy" (actually harder) way is only possible with the jug ledge in place - or maybe it woudl be possible but would be deffo much harder than any other beta. and also bear in mind that the current state of the "easy" sidepull is not as great as it once was. didn't the route used to be 8a+ with the very hard original start?

Oh right, its certainly easier than the rockover way. Maybe you're right its 'harder than the hard way'!! I personally think the easy way is 7b rather than 7a+ but that's just my opinion. I was not aware that the sidepull had altered. Hot Fun was graded 8a by Moonie in 86 when first done - it was the first 8a in the Peak but not the UK, that was of course Statement, the first 8a+ in the UK being Revelations in 84.

[Jaspersharpe]

Not wanting to sound boastful but as the question's been asked, I also flashed the original version of Kudos when I did it years ago, shown by Quentin (1992 I think, LOOK AT ME). This was pre pads so I shit myself when I got to the break and realised how high up I was. I had to reverse and jump off but fortunately had the big Dr spotting me, as good as a pad really! Took many more goes to repeat either the "hard" or original problems this time round and I still think the "easy" way is fucking desperate and definitely 7B.

As an amusing aside, this was around the time that Quent was trying to solo Caviar and kept falling off pretty high up and landing with a bang so loud that all the ducks and swans would take flight each time. He also nearly killed us at least three times on the drive to the crag. Mad fucker.

 

[Kingy]

Not wanting to sound boastful but as the question's been asked, I also flashed the original version of Kudos when I did it years ago, shown by Quentin (1992 I think, LOOK AT ME). This was pre pads so I shit myself when I got to the break and realised how high up I was. I had to reverse and jump off but fortunately had the big Dr spotting me, as good as a pad really!

Good bit of history there Jasper!  . Nice.

[dave]

soloing caviar would be proper balls-deep - that top section ain't easy for a kickoff! and the ground is very hard.

[Bonjoy]

I was not aware that the sidepull had altered. Hot Fun was graded 8a by Moonie in 86 when first done - it was the first 8a in the Peak but not the UK, that was of course Statement, the first 8a+ in the UK being Revelations in 84.

Not true, Revelations was 8a when first done. The crux pocket got worse due to either blow torching or sika in the back to stop seepage (I've heard both reasons put forward). So Caviar was the first 8a+, despite what Northern Limestone says.

[Bonjoy]

When did the sidepull on the easier way change? I didn't know it had.

Dave - When I said flash I meant a flash of the route after bouldering out the start, i.e a ground-up ascent without weighting the rope, which is a flash of sorts. But a true flash/onsight is well possible for some of the bouldering beasts wandering the crags these days.

[Jaspersharpe]

soloing caviar would be proper balls-deep - that top section ain't easy for a kickoff! and the ground is very hard.

Too right. Quentin seemed to have the inate ability to not hurt himself despite landing like a crane that'd been pushed off a skyscaper. The same day we were at Rubicon we went to Black Rocks and he fell/jumped off near the top of Velvet Silence (no pads obviously) and smashed into the ground horribly but just dusted himself off and laughed.

Bonjoy is right about Revelations and it was the sika that made it worse imo. The torching probably had something to do with it crumbling, getting even worse and going up to 8b.

[dave]

well a few years ago i'm sure there was like a little block but to the sidepull (you could drag your hadn on it fingers split) which ain't there now. however i'm sure i read somewhere the reason the so-called "easy" was was now quite tricky was because the sidepull had got much worse than originally, presumably some time in the mid 90s. maybe harris can shed some light.

I'm sure i'd heard that jerry filled the back of the revelations pocket in when he realised it was too easy!

[Kingy]

Not true, Revelations was 8a when first done. The crux pocket got worse due to either blow torching or sika in the back to stop seepage (I've heard both reasons put forward). So Caviar was the first 8a+, despite what Northern Limestone says.

Oh yeah you're right I have seen Rev referred to as 8a next to a picture of Jerry on it with knee high white socks and EB's and with that dodgy thread at the top of the groove in place!! Class. Perhaps its time for the historical record to be altered that keeps referring Rev to have been 8a+. BTW I believe John Hart has the original lip of the Revelations pocket that broke off in 95, there was a thread about it a while back. 

[Johnny Brown]

I thought Caviar was 8a now? How has that got easier then?

[travs]

If Caviar was 8a that would mean it was the same grade as 'Dangerous Brothers' and 'Out of my Tree' - is that really true?

[dave]

as far as I'm aware caviar is given 8a+ in the cockfax and the '99 bmc guide.

[Johnny Brown]

No wonder it felt hard.

[Bonjoy]

Have never heard anyone suggest 8a for Caviar before. 8a+ and not a pushover at that in most peoples opinions. You should try the top bit though JB (if you haven't already). I know you've done the start, which is at least half the hard climbing out of the way.

[Nigel]

If I recall correctly JB flashed the start up to halfway, which judging by the recent reports from the recent masses who have been all over it like a rash, is the hard bit! That wasn't my experience of it, but then I was using Brokebackhat's nasty reachy tiny pocket lock-off sequence. I also remember JB having a brief feel of the upper section with this method, but it seemed he preferred the feel of his briefs hanging in the harness. Adam, I hear on the grapevine that the top bit is OK using an egyptian and a *pinch*. No minging crimps, get involved...

[Kingy]

and also bear in mind that the current state of the "easy" sidepull is not as great as it once was.

Bang on there Dave, it would appear that a little chunk of the sidepull has parted company with the crag. Tried it today and didn't seem to make much/ any difference to the move as the actual surface of the sidepull is intact, it seems that the wall an inch to the left has got a bit of a dent in it. still a gutbuster of the move and much harder than the top move which once figured out is bout V6/7. For peeps trying it, pocket with RH and rock up/egyptian with LF in break way out left seems way to go!

[Steamboat Stello]

Any new info on whats going on with the Peal Bolt Fund a the moment? Having not really done much sport climbing before last year I didn't feel the need to donate but the last two years have been a bit of a revelation for me on Peak lime and I'd be keen to give something back.

From previous threads it looks like some money is there but the hands are not available? Is this still the case? If so I'd be willing to give up a day to learn how to bolt and then another day to actually re-bolt some stuff. If I had any more time I'd do more but I only get to climb 1 out of 4 weekends so ideally I'd rather just stump up some cash instead! What sort of donation are we talking to actually be worthwhile? £50? £100?

  Did Stone the Loach today! YYFY!