[Baron]

I believe Zippy considers that the average Peak 8a will have a V8 crux - and he invented sport climbing.

[Paz]

The first example you can fall off the 6c (unless it's like Life is Sweet with loads of nohanders) so it could well be 7c, but the one I did like this (Bullworker) though soft, had a little groove to lead you in, but was then more like a Fnt 6c at best into F6c.  But there's another that again after a lead in is Font 6c into F7a+ (Shock of The New). 

But wht short nails routes surpsingly for a big advocate of French grades like me I find it helpful to think in terms of trad grades. 

Short nails 7b+ is E5 6c (a pumpy one might be E6 6b). 

Short nails 7a+ is E4 6c. 

Ditto 6c+ is E3 6b/c, 6b+ is E2 6a/b, 6a+ coudl be an E1 5c/6a. 
 
So going upwards makes Thing on a Spring (E6 7a) 7c+ (bit under, but it's a slab), The Crack (E7 7a thing near Renegade Master) at Froggatt 8a+ (a bit over but you have to place a wire?). 

All numbers 100% correct to within a french grade either way ;-).

But I suspect a lot of these traditional boulder problem routes in The Peak are undergraded - I even ask you have any been onsighted...  <insert grade debate here>.

[GCW]

The Crack (E7 7a thing near Renegade Master) at Froggatt 8a+  

Probably a better name than "Screaming Dream".

[Kingy]

The Crack (E7 7a thing near Renegade Master) at Froggatt 8a+  

Probably a better name than "Screaming Dream".

This is given 8b in the Power of Climbing. Go figure...

[Paz]

Cheers GCW, the name escapes me. 

Kingy.  I figure the book's got it wrong (if that's 8b, then how hard's renegade master?!) I've got it right to within a grade, or I've got it right that it's undergraded.  That or it's something similar to Parthian - 8a+ climbing, but 8b to place the gear - and everyone's right. 

Incidentally has Renegade seen more repeats than Screaming?

[GCW]

As far as I know (correct me if I'm wrong), but nobody has done Jerry's original finish for RM, which didn't sneak round the right side of the arete.
But, ye- I don't think SD has seen many ascents.

Screaming Dream:  Leach, Moon.
Renegade Master:  Moffatt, Tom Briggs, Bentley, Sellars?, Ben Heason
I'm sure I've missed some, so feel free to add names.


Interestingly RM gets F7c+/8a on The Grit List, and SD gets F8a+.

[Kingy]

Rich Simpson repeated Jerry's original finish up the crack on Renegade fairly recently.

Paz, yes you are right about the grade of SD, probably 8a+ more likely. I was just pointing out that the likes of 8b has been mooted in the past. Yes, SD now appears to be the tougher proposition!! Interestingly it was nearly flashed by Moonie back in the day but he fell off an easy move at the start on his first go.

[GCW]

Rich Simpson repeated Jerry's original finish up the crack on Renegade fairly recently.

Ah, that I did not know.  Cheers.