[Jaspersharpe]

This video includes some unhelpful footage of Ned making The Pinch look piss. Looks like he just stands in the pocket.

[dave]

so basically the beta is "get stronger".

[Jaspersharpe]

Isn't it always?

[Kingy]

also, has anyone got any beta on the Pinch problem -

I put my left toe in the left hand end of the Tsunami starting slot and kind or wriggled it in so it was seated really well. Then I pulled like fook. It was about -5 when I did it though so the holds felt like jugs! I crimped the tiny edge for the RH instead of pinching the whole hold. I size my barracudas really big so my toe is flat in the shoe rather than ultra bunched up which would make wiggling it into the slot that much harder.

[Jaspersharpe]

Did BSD from the kneeling start yesterday using a combination of other people's beta from this thread. Thanks! It's a great set of moves and I had to use a really specific foot sequence for it to go from feeling desperate to possible.

I started LH two finger pocket, RH little positive edge next to it, RF good slanty edge that most people use on The Press. Rock up onto the RF, RH to the sidepull then really press out the pocket and right leg to shift body position over to the left. LF outside edge on the other good foothold next to RF, RF toe where most put the heel toe in, LF back to starting foothold RF was on. As mentioned earlier in the thread this then creates a solid position from which to reach the LH undercut. Plus from here I just had to move LF up to the positive little spiky thing (very important to place it carefully) and bang RH to the flat, right part of the jug without moving the RF.

Obviously the next challenge is to link in the low right start, the moves on which are fine. Only thing is I seem to have seen different starting positions so do you have to start LH in pocket RH on the big flake thing or is starting crossed over (i.e. one move further in) allowed? I know it probably doesn't make a huge difference but I don't want to A) add an extra move that I don't need to be doing in or more importantly B) do it wrong.

Also, for Tsunami where do people put their feet for matching the sloper? Haven't had a go in cold conditions yet and I realise it's a hard move but the only way I've got close was with a totally basic LF in starting hold RF on nothing slap which although doable is obviously NOT the best way.

Finally, for Tsunamish (with pocket) what is the usual foot sequence and do you go RH pocket LH sloper RH sidepull or is moving further along the rail so you're in the position I started the kneeling start from allowed / advisable? 

Thanks in advance for any help.

[dave]

good effort word. last night i manged to do BSD again for the first time in about 4 years so am psyched for get some good beta on the kneeler. had a brief play last night but reached no conclusions.

[Jaspersharpe]

I see you got that link up done dave. Fine effort.

Anyone got a clue re my queries? 

[dave]

nice one cheers, its a cracking combo of moves, got a bit of everything. kudos wall just reeks of quality at the moment.

[Andy Harris]

Originally BSD right hand started from the low jug pocket (RH) below RH Press foothold, pull on to LH finger lock in awkward slot, then cross with RH to flat sika'd edge and LH pocket.

However it's more complete, a bit longer and more sensible to start from the huge jugs on the right, LH to good 3 finger pocket then as above. No change in grade at all but this should be the approved start for this variant.

For Tsunami sloper match I use original method of LF only in poor pocket down & right of start slot. You can however:
- do it footless
- get big egyptian on poor pocket & RF on spiky edge out right
- use spiky edge out right and flag like a bas****

You should try the stand start to Dan Varians new sitter. Spicy 1 move 7c with the normal top out.
enjoy

[Jaspersharpe]

Cheers Andy

You should try the stand start to Dan Varians new sitter. Spicy 1 move 7c with the normal top out.
enjoy

Is this just pulling on on the horrible RH pocket and little LH crimpy thing and going for the jug? I've had a feel of those holds but I think it's one for when it's a bit cooler than when I've been there previously!

[dave]

you've got a slopey pocket for LH (you can either drag it, try to crimp, or backhand it a bit) and that tight lower slot for RH, which is best (for the stander) held as a 2-finger backhand where its positive. tis a good problem.

[Andy B]

If you use the right hand hold as a backhand you can get three fingers involved by putting your middle two on the best bit and your index slightly separated on another (not quite as) good bit just beneath. You can also use this hold as a wide horizontal pinch, using your thumb on the top lip of the slot and fingers on the slopeyness above. This gives you a bit more pull up, but a bit less pull in.

[dave]

by putting your middle two on the best bit and your index slightly separated on another (not quite as) good bit just beneath.

i had my thumb on this bit, and first 2 fingers on the rest. if i can't get a thumb on i'm screwed.

I think pinching this hold works if you're straight dragging/crimping the LH, but if you're backhandind like I did you need to also backhand the slot to get any push/opposition into it. i tried pinching for this and it just didn't play ball.

[Andy B]

for Tsunamish (with pocket) what is the usual foot sequence and do you go RH pocket LH sloper RH sidepull or is moving further along the rail so you're in the position I started the kneeling start from allowed / advisable? 

Thanks in advance for any help.

Seeing as (insert witty pun on Tsunami here) is just the non eliminate version of Tsunami surely you can use whatever you want to get into the stander. However I find it slightly easier to go off the sloper than the pocket as you can get more side out of the sidepull from the start of the move, rather than having to hang it and move round under it to start pulling up to the undercut.

[Jaspersharpe]

Nice one. Yes I know what you mean. The body position is better if you have LH on the sloper, you don't have to push across so much to get into the solid position on the sidepull. Interesting.

[Jaspersharpe]

In the grand tradition of boasting but partly because I also have a query........I finally did BSD from the low right start last night. As the lake echoed to the sound of me shouting YYFY!!! as I swung off the jug, I thought about how much effort I'd had to put into climbing this problem and it's difficulty in relation to the other problems I've done at Rubicon recently.

Essentially, how the fuck can climbing this problem from the low right start (5 extra moves) be the same grade as starting from the rail? In trying Low Right, I must have done the problem from the rail five or six times and while it never felt piss, it's much easier than linking in from the start, or is this just me? The Press from the rail is supposed to be 7C+ and from low right 8A. So why the extra grade for doing those same moves into that but not for BSD? Doesn't make sense to me.

Now I'm not saying that Low Right BSD is 7C+ (although everyone I've spoken to seems to think it is). As I was discussing with Sellars and The Sausage yesterday, in a way I'd rather take hard 7C than soft 7C+ but the grades need to make sense relative to the other problems there and if BSD from stand up is 7B then from the rail it's certainly two grades harder and from Low Right certainly harder again. In comparison to the Kudos variations (SS and Original) which may be 7C, Low Right BSD is also easily a full grade harder - for me.

Of course this is all subjective as some people may not find the above to be the case like me. I have very specific strengths and weaknesses. However, as I said, everyone I've spoken to thinks that this is an anomaly. Maybe it should be 7B+ from the rail and 7C from low right but then the stand up must be 7A+!? Discuss please.

Oh and........

[saltbeef]

Good effort!
I did BSD from the rail this year and i only climb 7b or swiss 7c so I'd guess its probably 7b! I haven't got a clue, I never linked it from the right due to various finger tweaks and hotness but it certainly felt harder! how can it not be, those extra couple of moves have got some painful little holds involved (ie the one referred to as a dogs mouth!)
anyway good effort. now for the left! (I think its a really good problem)

[Doylo]

For me the stand is 7a+, the crouch 7c, haven't tried the moves coming in from the right but know from experience that usually when you add moves to a 7c you get a 7c+ (unless they're really piss of course). Good effort Jasper.

[Doylo]

Good effort!
I did BSD from the rail this year and i only climb 7b or swiss 7c so I'd guess its probably 7b! I haven't got a clue, I never linked it from the right due to various finger tweaks and hotness but it certainly felt harder! how can it not be, those extra couple of moves have got some painful little holds involved (ie the one referred to as a dogs mouth!)
anyway good effort. now for the left! (I think its a really good problem)

your stronger than 7b salts

[Jaspersharpe]

Cheers lads. Yes this is my thinking entirely. Though the moves aren't that hard it's the equivalent to me of doing a four/five move 6C+/7A into the crouch start. It takes a bit out of your fingers for the hard moves and crucially, removes the chalk so the grease factor is higher. Liquid chalk seemed to help a bit.

Doylo - I thought of your sermon on crushing before my successful attempt. I'd had three goes, all of which at least equalled my high point on the problem and I felt really strong. It was one of those times like you said when you don't know when you're next going to feel that good so fuck worrying about the conditions and crush!

[nathan wind]

good effort!

for what its worth I think its top end 7C, especially in comparison to other 7C's I've done.. I don't think I've ever been on a 7C thats felt that desperate / frustrating.. whilst the moves in from the right aren't that hard, they certainly aren't easy and definitely take something out of you.. the top I think is a brick hard 7A though prolly 7A+, though I do have it wired.. starting from the rail has got to be 7B+?

anyhow, awesome climbing..

[nathan wind]

oh yeah and wearing V10's really helps too!

[Doylo]

Doylo - I thought of your sermon on crushing before my successful attempt. I'd had three goes, all of which at least equalled my high point on the problem and I felt really strong. It was one of those times like you said when you don't know when you're next going to feel that good so fuck worrying about the conditions and crush!

Then my work here is done.

[Kingy]

Nice one Jasper! I fell off the final slap for the jug on the low right version and smacked my elbow really bad on a jagged rock cos my foot stayed too long in the footlock! With the footlock I found the final slap easier than on the standup, where you are forced to place your right toe on the foothold. I have always found the standup to be 7b and then some! The crouching start wasn't too bad with the footlock as I flagged my left foot under and onto a vertical edge out right for balance. The moves in from the right I found didn't add much at all as I had a pretty efficient way of doing it with minimal footchanges. If anything your power is up by the time you hit the crouching start so it actually helps you in a strange way, rather than hitting the move cold.

[Andy B]

The moves in from the right I found didn't add much at all....If anything your power is up by the time you hit the crouching start so it actually helps you in a strange way, rather than hitting the move cold.

There speaks a true route climber.