[Bonjoy]

Andy - Yes, one persons opinion is just that. That said someone has to make the call if stuff is clearly off or graded for bad sequences or whatever. All grade decisions, even the ones based on multiple opinions boil down to one man choosing between X or Y. Ultimately Ru will have had to make one man decisions on lots of probs in his book, so I don't see why these should be seen as sacrosanct.
 I don't even know what the list is for and I'm not claiming the numbers on it have any precedent over book grades. What I would dearly love it to be used for is basis material for a Yorkshiregrit.com style website with grade votes so that everyone can have their say.

Grimer - Back to 7b for the Beast then

[Andy B]

Andy - Yes, one persons opinion is just that. That said someone has to make the call if stuff is clearly off or graded for bad sequences or whatever. All grade decisions, even the ones based on multiple opinions boil down to one man choosing between X or Y. Ultimately Ru will have had to make one man decisions on lots of probs in his book, so I don't see why these should be seen as sacrosanct.
 I don't even know what the list is for and I'm not claiming the numbers on it have any precedent over book grades. What I would dearly love it to be used for is basis material for a Yorkshiregrit.com style website with grade votes so that everyone can have their say.

Grimer - Back to 7b for the Beast then

True. I re-read my post and thought that it could have been seen as having a go for changing grades, which it certainly wasn't. Grades always need reviewing, and gaining concensus, as you are doing, seems to be the best way of going about it. I just find grading problems very difficult due to so many ephemeral factors being involved. It is easy for someone to confidently assert a grade for a particular problem but there are always flaws in that assessment, and awareness those flaws always blurrs my opinions on grades.

[account_inactive]

The '7a' left of heartland is mighty tough if it indeed does start on the low jug pocket. Myself and Dave felt it were more like 7b.
Honestly now it reaslly isn't 7a.

Another vote for this being 7b

[Johnny Brown]

comparable in grade to Rambeau on Curbar

You mena ramboid, of course. lets not confuse the issue on Rambeau any further

[grimer]

Jonboy, I don't know, I have no opinion on it myself, just saying that there are a couple of people who might. Ask Mike if you see him at the works

[Bonjoy]

I will. I thought it was 7b when I did it, but then it seemed to shut down lots of folk. Mantels are tough to grade.

[richdraws]

Trackside 7a but I have seen tall people make it look 6b or lower, I think abarro is one of them.
The other side is nails, 7a+ even assuming I am missing a trick.
Early Doors 7a+, took quite a few goes and 2 sessions more than Gorrila Warfare.
GW could be 6c+
The terrace 7c just did this at the weekend so am gutted to hear its being downgraded... though I suspected as much. I certainly have not done any other 7c+, I also have not tried any other 7c+ other than Lowrider which felt easier. So I suspect Lowrider needs adjusting down to 7c.

[Bonjoy]

Lowrider has relatively (for a 7c+) easy moves but is hard to link. I found it a lot harder than The Terrace.  Have you linked it? If more people said 7c I'd downgrade it, but so far everyone who has done it has said 7c+ (to me anyway). Now's the time to pipe up if this is incorrect.
On the subject of my own problems, I've downgraded Hat's For Clowns to 7a+, Goose Creature to 7b+ and I'm thinking about downgrading Salle Goose to 7c. Andy? Will ask Ned what he reckons.

[El Mocho]

I thought Lowrider was given 7c when I did it, but I wouldn't complain about 7c+, it is certainly harder than Terrace.

Failed on Salle Goose the other day, it was hot mind. Did River of Life the same day, is there certain beta/eliminate nature to this? The way I did it was about 7c (bum start on edge and hold, undercut for right, 2 finger gaston for L, over to good slot...)

[Bonjoy]

I think the way you did RoL is the way Ru did it. It sounds like this way is easier than the original sequence. I was thinking of putting it down as River of Life RH as it climbs pretty differently and it would be a shame if the brilliant original sequence wasn't recognised in some way other than as an inefficient way to climb a 7c.
 

[Bonjoy]

Grading other peoples probs objectively is hard, grading your own is twice as hard. So as many grade opinions on my own probs as possible please. Talking of which, has anyone repeated Sweet Release?

[richdraws]

No I have not linked Lowrider yet, but its a great problem so I hope to get back on it soon. Or rather get the motivation to wander up there on my own....... Shaun H get your arse down and come try this with me, its got toe hooks and everything!

[Ru]

I went back and did RoL the normal way and didn't think it much harder than the gaston method. I also think Tim Clifford tried the gaston method and didn't do it (dobbin told me this so I might have got the wrong end of the stick). So it might be a bit harder than 7c, then again it might not be.

[El Mocho]

I think it is pretty well know that I am crap at grading stuff. If in any doubt I give 7c. I felt ROL RH was 7cish as I was getting spanked on the original method so it was obviously easier than that (for me).

[Paz]

Is Sidetrack the old B5/6 thing to the right of Trackside - i.e. using the same arete but on the other side? 

If so, Jim, you really think that's harder than Early Doors?

Font 6c felt alright for that (Sidetrack), about the same as the tall man's go again method on Trackside.

[Jim]

yes. I can do it nearly every go, same with ED but I am more likely to fail on this and have to pull harder on this as well.
6c for this is a joke tbh

[Idol eyes]

UK Grades may make it easier?

[mark]

Early doors - if GW is middling 7a then ED is 7a+ cos it's a notch harder in my mind.

Just to throw another few spanners in, both at Baslow - Dirty Bitch: Has this now been heavily downgraded to 6c? Also Hurry on sundown sitter (ace problem). 7a+? I would vote 7a max.

Have I been missing a trick with Hurry On Sundown sitter? Have done the standing start several times but I find the sit start completely desperate. Are you using the block on the right? I've always tried it without touching that and found the first moves savage. Is there a trick or are you using the right-hand block or am I just crap?

[r-man]

There's a foothold in the crack that is still part of the left block.

[Jaspersharpe]

UK Grades may make it easier?

Keep plugging away Pat! 

[Bonjoy]

I'm away now for two weeks. But will go over everything when I get back

[Idol eyes]

Keep plugging away Pat! 
[/quote]

 

[monkey boy]

Reckon your definately right about superbloc, its harder than 8a. I personally reckon early doors is fair at 7a+ dont think it needs downgrading, would say its harder than electrical storm. Agree on Suavito being 7b but reckon Flatworld LH is slightly harder 7b+ maybe....

I would say ROL definately felt in the 8a range when i did it, maybe a little soft but theres note wrong with a few soft end grades. Having not done Westwood but got very close last year in one session (just didnt add the first move in) I would say hard 7c+/soft 8a, could be wrong though, thats for James sequence, static method you the crimp is definately not 8a.

Sale Goose looked about 7c when Ned did it Jon, although conditions were bon, so could be hard 7c/soft 7c+

[account_inactive]

Is Flatworld sitter going in as 8a?

[Kim]

Sidetrack - its definatley harder than trackside but I don't think it warrents 7a+, maybe very bottom end. I've only ever seen 2 other people do this and I had to show then both the beta (one was JB)

I think it warrants 7a+. As Jim lapped it 143 times in front of me today, I think his grading judgement is being clouded by familiarity 

Dick williams is definatley probably hard 7b as is Zaffs. I'm suprised JB didn't mention the 1st accent of DW was climbed like a metronome. How do shorties have to climb it Jon?

Wouldn't disagree with DW as 7b. Especially if Left Hand Man (non contrived way) is 7b+.

The rib at 7b, although top end also gets my vote although I have to pull really hard on that sideways crimp

Leave The Rib at 7b+. Significantly harder than DW if you ask me.

good call on upgrading electrical storm

Indeed....

I personally reckon early doors is fair at 7a+ dont think it needs downgrading, would say its harder than electrical storm.

  You must have some fucking good beta on Electrical Storm!

Hmmm, what else have I seen today.... Hurry on Sundown. Thought 7a was about right for stander when I did it. Sitter seemed desperate (did not investigate cheat stones in crack though) - Andy B did it mostly by climbing sideways toe hooking flatworld I think. Did not sound very 7a+.