[Paz]

Are you another one who thinks Early Doors is harder than Side track?  Dude I knew we were different climbers but honestly. 

If you learned to crimp with your little finger too, you'd be fucking amazing ;-)!

What other piece of climbign advice is going to give you up to a 33% increase in power?

Any way this thread has helped me realise that there are many other things in the world, indeed many other things on Curbar, I want to climb more than early doors. For this I thank you all. 

[r-man]

Hmmm, what else have I seen today.... Hurry on Sundown. Thought 7a was about right for stander when I did it. Sitter seemed desperate (did not investigate cheat stones in crack though) - Andy B did it mostly by climbing sideways toe hooking flatworld I think. Did not sound very 7a+.

It's not a cheat stone, it's part of the arete, though you have to look carefully to realise. I laboured for ages at a sequence something like Andy B's, until JB and Sam W turned up and used the not-quite-cheating-foothold. I followed suit. Using this is the only way it's 7a+.

[mini]

Fact Hunt - 7a maximum!

[monkey boy]

I personally reckon early doors is fair at 7a+ dont think it needs downgrading, would say its harder than electrical storm.

  You must have some fucking good beta on Electrical Storm!

No good beta just slap, slap and slap i think. Maybe conditions were good!

[Jim]

I think it must of been really good conditions!

Fact Hunt - went here for the first time today, both problems are really good and did them a number of times to complete my alpine circuit.
Fact hunt has to be the biggest gift at 7b+ in the world. As for the grade, I was thinking about 7a, but then I realised its quite a bit harder than early doors so top end 7a+/ bottom end 7b 7b I recon cos its quite a powerfull lock.

[cowboyhat]

Famous Grouse. In Ru's guide the stand start only gets 7b+.

I think its harder than this, 7c.

[monkey boy]

I think it must of been really good conditions!

Fact Hunt - went here for the first time today, both problems are really good and did them a number of times to complete my alpine circuit.
Fact hunt has to be the biggest gift at 7b+ in the world. As for the grade, I was thinking about 7a, but then I realised its quite a bit harder than early doors so top end 7a+/ bottom end 7b 7b I recon cos its quite a powerfull lock.

Its just I am so strong Jim!! 
I reckon fact hunt is easier than early doors! Just me there?! Fact hunt 7a/+

Famous Grouse. In Ru's guide the stand start only gets 7b+.

I think its harder than this, 7c.

Its definately tricky for 7b+ but i reckon thats a fair grade, unless you are small and then it looks much harder! The sit doesnt add anything either 7b+ for both.

[cowboyhat]

I'm not small; I climb it a tall way in fact. Having seen the sequence for those with a smaller span it looks even harder, and it is perhaps this that confirms it isn't 7b+. It doesn't compare to other 7b+'s in the area.

WestSide, Blind Date, it is much harder than both of these.

[Jim]

Definately 7c from standing, the sitter is log!
About as hard as blind fig I'd say

[Johnny Brown]

The problem with the sitter is it just adds an awkward and not very worthwhile move which just reduces your odds of the doing the top without really making it harder or better. I agree it might merit 7c, if only that its so conditions dependent.

[Andy B]

Alright then. As I shouldn't complain about innacuracies if I don't contribute to the process, here are my opinions of the grades of the problems mentioned in this thread so far. I have only included problems that I have done, as I don't think it's reasonable to (down)grade things that you haven't. With the exception of The Buckstone Dyno, The Rib, and Hampers Hang, all the problems have been done in the last two years or so, which should hopefully make for more accurate comparison.

The Green Man – High 7b+ One of those that is knacky and conditiony, feels desperate until you do it, then feels effortless.
eatswood Traverse – 7b+ but I did it before the holds snapped so can’t really comment fairly.
Sidetrack – 6c+ easier than Trackside but flexibility and reach helps
Electrical Storm – Low 7b
Hamper’s Hang – 7a No hard moves on it at all, and rests along the way.
Back In The YMCA –  Low 7b+ starting to the left of the block
**H Top – at least 7b
Brad Pit – Low 7c+
Dick Williams – 7b
Hats For Weasels – Low 7b+
Heartland – Low 7c
Flatworld LH – 7b
Gorilla Warfare - 7a
Early Doors – 7a+ Mrs Andy B did Gorilla Warfare in a few goes but took 4 sessions to do the last move on Early Doors
Rambeau – 7a+
Nigel’s Prob – 7a but conditiony
The Rib – 7b+
Blind Drunk - 8a but to cancel out Nigel and Andy H’s deluded ramblings – 8b. I am prepared to support this assertation (the 8a not the 8b) with judicious use of science and logic if necessary.
The Terrace – low 7c
Giza – Low 7c if you have to rock over in the break
zaff's problem - 7b
suavito - 7b
fact hunt - 7a+
Alliance - 7a
Classic Arete - 7a
Captain Hook - 7b
Andle Stone Wall - Low 7b morpho
Buckstone Dyno - High 7b morpho
Happy Campus – 7b
Mossatrocity, - low 7c
Zorev – high 7c
Domes SS, - 7c
Brass Monkeys, - 7c
Zaf Scotchlas Low 7c (higher start, better, Low 7b+)
Danny’s – 7c+
Submergence - 7c (without reaching straight from the sidepull)
Walnut Whip - 7b
Trackside - low 7a but rapidly gets harder as the climber gets shorter
Triangular Wall - low 7a
“7a” next to heartland - 7a (the only tricky move is taking the heel toe out, and that’s not that bad)
Dirty Bitch low 7a without the arête to finish
Hurry on Sundown standing - 6c
Hurry on sundown sitting - 7b (I think the chock stone is cheating)
Hats for clowns - Low 7a+
Salle Goose - I would be tempted to give this 7c but on the basis of the waddage I have seen struggling to hang the holds I will say Low 7c+
River of Life - low 8a
Left Hand Man - 7b+
Famous Grouse standing - low 7c
Famous Grouse sitting - 7c
Blind Fig - high 7c

[Bonjoy]

Nice! Definate opinions on grades, that's what I like to see.
For the list I won't consider changing grades on probs I haven't done unless at least two people who have done said problem suggest change of grade and then it comes down to trying to average out opinions (not always easy). All the suggested changes on the original post where based on this rule.

[r-man]

Hurry on sundown sitting - 7b (I think the chock stone is cheating)

There is no chockstone! Know what you mean though, it feels like cheating, even though doing it any other way is actually an eliminate.

[Andy B]

Nice! Definate opinions on grades, that's what I like to see.

It's interesting how easy it seems to be to get most problems down to a split grade, but I don't think that is particularly helpful in trying to nail things down so I have tried not to sit on the fence (where I am usually securely perched) over any of them.

For the list I won't consider changing grades on probs I haven't done unless at least two people who have done said problem suggest change of grade and then it comes down to trying to average out opinions (not always easy). All the suggested changes on the original post where based on this rule.

In that case my mates....erm...Francois and....erm....Wolfgang both agree with all of my grade opinions.

Let's have a heated debate.

[Andy B]

Hurry on sundown sitting - 7b (I think the chock stone is cheating)

There is no chockstone! Know what you mean though, it feels like cheating, even though doing it any other way is actually an eliminate.

I think the bit that looks very much like a chockstone is cheating.

[Bonjoy]

I once took a loose chockstone out of that crack. But that was a good couple of years ago now and it may or may not have been the only one.

[r-man]

I definitely did it with a toe on a protuding bit of the arete. It wasn't satisfying, but seeing as the problem climbs the arete, it's the logical thing to do. You could eliminate this, but then it's an eliminate. Pick the lesser of two evils I guess...

Whilst we're at Baslow, Andy B, you really think Hurry on Sundown standing is two grades easier than Dirty Bitch?

Baslow 7a's

Little Richard (hard)
Hurry on Sundown (soft)
Dirty Bitch (very soft)

Admittedly I've climbed none of these in perfect conditions

As for that 7a slab, JB told me he's done it straight up the middle, which seems very hard. I've done it up the left with a pop for a good crimp, which felt reasonable for 7a. I've seen it done up the right and moving into the middle, which feels harder. Should be three problems I think (ala Tiny slab at B.north) - at the moment everyone I know who has tried it is confused.

[Andy B]

Fair enough. I can certainly believe that there is an easier sequence than the one I used, but I can't visualise any footholds on the arete that weren't so dabby as to make them unusable. You could argue that my sequence is dubious as I used the flatworld arete for the first few moves.

Whilst we're at Baslow, Andy B, you really think Hurry on Sundown standing is two grades easier than Dirty Bitch?

Baslow 7a's

Little Richard (hard)
Hurry on Sundown (soft)
Dirty Bitch (very soft)

You see this is why I get reticent about strong opinions over grades.

I find Little Richard very easy, but I know that it suits me as it's very basic crimping and rocking over, but I know others have an unusually hard time on it for the grade. Hurry on Sundown has no tricky moves r small holds on it, as I would say is easier than, say sickle crak, the Sheep or Fish Arete (or Fat World!). Dirty bitch has some comparitively intense bunched locking on small holds, and I know at least one person who took longer to do this than Fact Hunt.

If it were just me:

The Good the Bad and the Beagle - probably harder than 7a
Elmer Fudd - hard 7a
Glove Love - 7a
Fact Hunt - easy 7a
Little Richard, Dirty Bitch, Hurry On Sundown Standing - sixes

but I know this is totally skewed, so based on my knowledge of other's experiences of the problems:

The Good the Bad and the Beagle - probably hard 7a+
Elmer Fudd - hard 7a
Glove Love - 7a
Fact Hunt - 7a+
Little Richard - hard 7a
Dirty Bitch -easy 7a
Hurry On Sundown Standing 6c

As for that 7a slab, JB told me he's done it straight up the middle, which seems very hard. I've done it up the left with a pop for a good crimp, which felt reasonable for 7a. I've seen it done up the right and moving into the middle, which feels harder. Should be three problems I think (ala Tiny slab at B.north) - at the moment everyone I know who has tried it is confused.

I and everyone that I know who has done this, started with their right foot on the starting hold of Fat World, and went straight up (maybe slightly left) using a highish poor left foothold that is hard to make stick, and the two gash slopers for hands.

[dave]

Dirty bitch has some comparitively intense bunched locking on small holds, and I know at least one person who took longer to do this than Fact Hunt.

 

[r-man]

Glove Love? What's that?

I and everyone that I know who has done this, started with their right foot on the starting hold of Fat World, and went straight up (maybe slightly left) using a highish poor left foothold that is hard to make stick, and the two gash slopers for hands.

This is the right-hand line I was on about. I was under the impression JB had done it straight up the middle, but perhaps I'm wrong.

Dirty Bitch felt like 6c to me. Everyone in our group flashed it, but I guess there weren't any tall people present.

[Andy B]

Glove Love? What's that?

I'm glad you asked me that.

Further along the hillside from Fact hunt is another wall, that is easiest to get to from the top track. It is vertical, slightly highball, and on excellent rock
Cofe and I cleaned and developed the wall to produce four problems (plus the crap right arete). These were: the left arete: (can't remember what cofe called it) 6b?; Glove Love, 7a, the wall up hairline cracks left of centre, Genre Spanner (which later turned out to be an Al Williams problem called Honeypot Wall), the central line, 6b; and Mangina, 6c direct/ righthand start to Honeypot Wall. I also did a very small sit start lip and rock over problem up behind and to the right of Honeypot Wall at 7aish

[Kingy]

I ain't done all these 7a problems at Baslow away from Flatworld but I agree with R-man that Elmer Fudd should possibly be listed as 'Left Hand' and 'Right Hand' starts as there is scope for 2 lines on this slab. These lines would not be eliminates as they start a fair way away from each other. I have done the left hand one which I thought rated 7a and tried the right one which was harder IMO.

[Andy B]

Dirty Bitch felt like 6c to me. Everyone in our group flashed it, but I guess there weren't any tall people present.

The difference between 6c and 7a isn't a big one unless this is close to your limit, which is why I think it is very hard to accurately assess grades for problems more than a couple of grades away from your personal limit. 

[Andy B]

I ain't done all these 7a problems at Baslow away from Flatworld but I agree with R-man that Elmer Fudd should possibly be listed as 'Left Hand' and 'Right Hand' starts as there is scope for 2 lines on this slab. These lines would not be eliminates as they start a fair way away from each other. I have done the left hand one which I thought rated 7a and tried the right one which was harder IMO.

I agree that there are two lines on the slab, but don't reckon the left hand one is 7a.

[r-man]

The difference between 6c and 7a isn't a big one unless this is close to your limit, which is why I think it is very hard to accurately assess grades for problems more than a couple of grades away from your personal limit. 

True. But one of our group had only done one 7a before, the Green Trav, and she flashed Dirty Bitch, saying "is that really 7a?". Still, the peak needs some soft touches. Font has enough of them.

Those new problems sound good, I'll check 'em out next time. Also, I did a new one yesterday. Lilliput 7a+. On the left-hand side of the boulder behind the flatworld bloc. Lowball fun. I'll post a crap video later.

I agree that there are two lines on the slab, but don't reckon the left hand one is 7a.

A couple of inches difference in reach makes a big difference to difficulty on this one, I think.