[Houdini]

Totally into this Cote du Rhone at the moment.  Found it reduced to £6 in Tescos.

Thought it was great w/ plenty of woodiness (a taste I'm warming to lots), actually it reminded me of a Taste Vinage oaked pinot I had earlier in the year.  Odd.

[Houdini]

FAO wino's in the Brum zone, Connolley's the fine independant has a sale on next Friday and Saturday.  It's a great little shop.

[lagerstarfish]

I don't know much about wine, but I know what I like. This was forced upon me on Friday night by some chap claiming to be Joe Picalli.



very nice

[Joepicalli]

I don't know much about wine, but I know what I like. This was forced upon me on Friday night by some chap claiming to be Joe Picalli.



very nice

In return for which I received two blindingly delicious  hot smoked trout caught by lagers own fair hand and smoked in his back garden.
Come the collapse of civilization(scheduled for some time in mid November currently) he will be very well placed to come through it on a diet of delicious river fish.

[Eros Poli]

Any recommendations for Cote du Rhone wines appreciated, and 100% syrahs.

Vaqueyras and Gigondas - Cotes du Rhone Grand Crus. The only thing that seperates these vinyards from Chateauneauf du Pape is the A7 Autoroute. Oh yes and about 5 quid a bottle in price.
Much cheaper and just as good in the same area is Cairanne.
However the best kept Cotes du Rhone secret is Rasteau which is going to be promoted to Grand Cru sometime in the next few years so grab some while you can as prices are still cheap. It will shoot up in price after the promotion.

Cheers

Eros

[Sloper]

I didn't think that the Rhone has a Cru classification in the same form as Claret or Burgundy, have I missed something here?

I do however agree about Rasteau, a fine commune; but when it comes to Ch-n-de-P there's a difference between the top flight and the dross sold in Tesco.

[shark]

Madiran Reserve des Tuguets on offer again at Tesco at about £5.99.

  :Fine enough for me.

[slackline]

This was a parcticularly nice Vacqueyras I discovered in Moret sur Loing at €11 a bottle (was €5-6 in Carrefoure).  They stock it in the refurbished Nottingham House now I noticed the other day too.

[GraemeA]

I didn't think that the Rhone has a Cru classification in the same form as Claret or Burgundy, have I missed something here?

Nope you are of course correct. The Rhone just has the standard classification ie AC is the highest.

All the various Cotes du Rhone Villages that have AC status are decent with some being very good. Can't beat a good Hermitage though

[Eros Poli]

I didn't think that the Rhone has a Cru classification in the same form as Claret or Burgundy, have I missed something here?

I do however agree about Rasteau, a fine commune; but when it comes to Ch-n-de-P there's a difference between the top flight and the dross sold in Tesco.

There's a few Crus now. St Joseph, Hermitage, Beaumes de Venise, Vinsobres, Gigondas, Vaqueyras, Tavel (rosé), Cote Rotie, C-d-P, I think I've missed a few but can't think of the top of my head - Rasteau is next.

There's 16 Cotes du Rhone Villages too. About 18 if I recall - i used to be able to remember them when there were 16.

I think the C-d-P in Tesco has aplastic cork and is bottled at the big plant near Tullette.

Ciao

Eros

[GraemeA]

There's a few Crus now. St Joseph, Hermitage, Beaumes de Venise, Vinsobres, Gigondas, Vaqueyras, Tavel (rosé), Cote Rotie, C-d-P, I think I've missed a few but can't think of the top of my head - Rasteau is next.

There's 16 Cotes du Rhone Villages too. About 18 if I recall - i used to be able to remember them when there were 16.

They are not Crus, they are Appelation Controlees and Rasteau and all of the other Cotes du Rhone Villages where the village is named (eg Vinsorbes, Laundun (sp?)) are already AC's.

[Eros Poli]

There's a few Crus now. St Joseph, Hermitage, Beaumes de Venise, Vinsobres, Gigondas, Vaqueyras, Tavel (rosé), Cote Rotie, C-d-P, I think I've missed a few but can't think of the top of my head - Rasteau is next.

There's 16 Cotes du Rhone Villages too. About 18 if I recall - i used to be able to remember them when there were 16.

They are not Crus, they are Appelation Controlees and Rasteau and all of the other Cotes du Rhone Villages where the village is named (eg Vinsorbes, Laundun (sp?)) are already AC's.

The 16/18 "Cotes du Rhone Villages" are seperate. The crus don't even have to put "Cotes du Rhone" on the lable.


Eros

[GraemeA]

They are not crus. They are AC's!!

There are 95 villages eligible to use the Cotes du Rhone Village appellation and the best 20 of them have the right to append the name of the village. These 20 super villages include the likes of of Rateau, Carainne, Beaumes de Venise, Seguret, Laudun and Sablet. But they are Cotes du Rhone Villages.

 

[Eros Poli]

They are not crus. They are AC's!!

There are 95 villages eligible to use the Cotes du Rhone Village appellation and the best 20 of them have the right to append the name of the village. These 20 super villages include the likes of of Rateau, Carainne, Beaumes de Venise, Seguret, Laudun and Sablet. But they are Cotes du Rhone Villages.

 

I think we are getting our wires crossed. Probably down to how we define Appellation d’origine contrôlée  and Cru etc etc.
However At my friend's vinyard in August, just after the Rasteau Nuit du Vin, I went round to purchse a few bottles and he was so excited about the fact that Rasteau was to be promoted to Cru status (putting it up there with Gigondas, Chateauneauf du Pape, Hermitage etc)
But what does he know? He's French and his vinyard has been in his family for a few hundred years. I'll tell him what you have said so he can change all his publicity and literature. I'll also mention what you've said to the publishers of the Guide Inte-Rhone des Vignobles so they can re-word pages 5 - 8.

PS there are 95 communes not villages. Big difference.

Eros

[nik at work]

Heated debate about wine classification on a bouldering forum. And people try and say climbing isn't middle class...

[GraemeA]

And I will tell Hugh Johnson and Jancis Robinson so they can change their World Atlas of Wine and Hugh can change his Pocket Wine Book. And I will tell the Wine Society that all of the wine that they have been selling me for years is not a Cotes du Rhone Village (see http://www.thewinesociety.com/shop/search.aspx?pageNumber=0&pageSize=9999&type=&grape=&vintage=&orderby=&keyword=rhone&wineType=&appellation=&grapeType=&priceRange=&sweetness=&country=&region=%20&match=&searchType=simple&advancedKeyword=rhone  for example).

I humbly suggest that your mate might have been using a local term that is not formally recognised. And that he was probably pissed 

They do concede that both Rasteau and Cairanne have their own AC status but they only apply to the Vin Doux Natural.

And the Cru Classe system does not operate in the Rhone. It is only used in Bordeaux, Burgundy and to a lesser degree Alsace.

Ps communes not villages - sloppy on my part  

[Eros Poli]

First I must apologise - i'm a bit behind with this, it was August since I last spoke to someone in the know. Rasteau is indeed now a Cru.

But just out of interest what do your non French wine guidebooks class the following Cotes du Rhone wines as:

Chateau Grillet
Cote Rotie
Condrieu
Cornas
Crozes Hermitage
Hermitage
St Joseph
C-d-P
Gigondas
Lirac
Tavel
Vaqueyras
Beaumes de Venise ??

Eros

[GraemeA]

Couldn't be bothered looking at the books so nipped down to my cellar

My bottle of Ch Beaucastel Blanc 1995 claims it is Appellation CDP Controlee. It does not mention Cru. I wonder why?

My bottle of Chave Hermitage Blanc 1998 claims it is Appellation Hermitage Controlee. Again no mention of Cru. Again I wonder why?

[GraemeA]

Oh and by the way Cotes du Rhone is a sub region of Rhone so most of the AC's that you mentioned aren't Cotes du Rhone.

[Eros Poli]

Ok I concede. definately wires crossed.

Les Crus des Cotes du Rhone:
Ils sonont au nombre de quinze avec du nord au sud: Chateau Grillet, Cote Rotie, Condrieu, Cornas, Crozes Hermitage, Hermitage, Sainte - Joseph et Seinte Peray dans la partie septentrionale: Chateauneauf de Pape, Gigondas, Lirac, Tavel et Vaqueyras dans la partie meridionale. Sans oublier les vins doux de Beaumes de Venise.

Crus
At the most demanding level of distinction, a total of 15 crus are allowed to be recognised by their village name without requiring the mention of Côtes du Rhône on the label. With the unique exception of Château-Grillet, a white septentrienal within the AOC Condrieu, a feature of the nomenclature of CDR wines is that at the top level they are named only after their villages, and not after châteaux as is usual for Bordeaux wines. Tavel is a rosé only, very light and dry, which is usually drunk chilled, and can be enjoyed at anytime of the day. Beaumes de Venise AOC, Château-Grillet AOC, Châteauneuf-du-Pape AOC, Condrieu AOC Cornas AOC, Côte-Rôtie AOC, Crozes-Hermitage AOC, Gigondas AOC, Hermitage AOC, Lirac AOC, Saint Joseph AOC, Saint Péray AOC, Tavel AOC, Vacqueyras AOC, Vinsobres AOC,

Ciao

Eros

[Sloper]

Why not accept that you're wrong and more over are dealing with some well marinated people who know one end of the 1855 classification from the right bank grand crus?

PS Nik, just imagine if this discussion was taking place on a forum populated by members of the Alpine Club; they'd probably have their butler posting for them.

let me know when Mrs Nik is about and you're up for a dinner in derbyshire.

[nik at work]

Will do.

[Eros Poli]

Why not accept that you're wrong and more over are dealing with some well marinated people who know one end of the 1855 classification from the right bank grand crus?

Ok - i've given up. Is it just the word "Cru" that they have got wrong then?
Eros

[steveo]

Sorry if this has already been posted but did anyone else see the Dispatches programme 'What's In Your Wine ?' .. quite shocking, really - sulphites, gelatine, tannins and in extreme cases hydrochloric & sulphuric acid - not to mention copious amounts of sugar and grape flavourings. It's here for the next 12 hours http://www.channel4.com/video/dispatches-whats-in-your-wine/catchup.html
  Cheers !

[slackline]

Not sure if its the same program, but I caught a bit about many of the champagne vine-yeards being littered in litter, quite litterally.  Apparently after WWII it was felt that throwing detritous from the cities would help fertilise the vines, and no one has bothered to clear the shit up.  Broken razors, watches, all sorts of shit between the vines