[SA Chris]

slightly OT, but what is it with (ultra) runners and massive beards. I can think of nothing worse than have that on my face when running long distance.

[slab_happy]

I guess it’s hard to really know but my understanding is it’s basically impossible to finish Barkley as a ‘virgin’ and that most people rely on teaming up with a ‘veteran’ on their first attempt. I’d be interested in the stats for how many people have finished a Fun Run on their first attempt? Reading between the lines it doesn’t sound like she really teamed up with anyone. She’s obviously a world-class athlete and quite capable of a finish with a bit more experience of the topography. Hope she goes back.

Interview with her about it (apparently she did team up with other runners a bit):



She says she's not yet officially decided whether she'll go back. But also she's got ideas on how she'd improve her chances if she did ...

[steveri]

Very impressive. I’ve got a cherished race photo if me in front of Jasmin Paris …she was in a fun team on a relay and closing fast 

[edshakey]

JK out on the Wainwrights again this week, starting 10am tomorrow. Hopefully he makes it round this time - record or no record, would just be great to see a completion. He says he's got "an ambitious goal" which I assume would be record pace, but not explicit about that yet.

https://live.opentracking.co.uk/jkw2022/

[Bradders]

Anyone have some advice on making running with a large rucksack comfortable?

I'm running home from work once a week and, with my laptop, clothes, etc., especially if I've been to the wall in the morning, I'm carrying a fairly large, heavy ish pack. This has been giving me friction burns around my lower back where it's rubbed, despite it being a very adjustable and comfortable bag. Is there any way to stop / reduce this?

[lukeyboy]

That's a tricky one, if you already have a decent bag. My advice would be to reduce bounce in the bag by tightening all the straps etc and bringing the load as close to your back as possible, strap the bag tightly to you to try and minimise movement / chafing, and then finally try to adjust your gait to be as un-bouncy as possible, basically a lope. You might be doing all of these things already.

[edshakey]

Yeah assuming your bag is tight around your torso at the bottom (some sort of strap(s) around your waist/abs/chest, depending on bag size), I can't think of many ways to stop it rubbing! At some point, a heavy bag is a heavy bag and it's always going to be difficult to run with. Maybe worth looking into what people use on things like The Spine Race, with heavy/bulky kit requirements - the caveat being that they often aren't running fast so may be less prone to issues caused by bouncing.

A way to avoid the issue all together might be something along the lines of: travel to work normally, then leave your bag at work and run home; next morning run to work, and pick up your stuff and return as normal. There's a variety or reasons this may not work but if you can do it, it gets an extra run in and means you have minimal gear to carry while running!

[Stabbsy]

Probably obvious stuff that you're already doing, but make sure the weight's as close to your back as possible - a bag with a laptop pocket next to the back would be a must for me. I've got an Osprey one, although don't run with it unless I really have to! Then make sure you tighten all the compression straps to flatten the load front to back. It's amazing how big a difference this makes, even with something as small as a bumbag.

The rubbing/chafing issue depends on the cause.

• - Is it a hard corner or rough bit on the bag? Repack or get a new bag.
• - Cotton top that's getting sweaty? Don't wear cotton.
• - Top riding up while running and leaving bare skin? Tuck your top in your shorts.

Ultimately you will probably get chafing whatever you do, because it's next to impossible to stop all movement of the bag. However, limit the movement as much as possible with a waist strap and maybe a bit of vaseline on the affected area might hold things off for long enough to run home? T_B on here recommended some natural runners lubrication (Squirrel's Nut Butter) that I've yet to try but probably will - similar idea to the vaseline, i.e., takes longer for the rubbing to become an issue.

[steveri]

As above, smallest bag, compression straps, hip/chest strap, etc. Solid state hard drive next time you buy a laptop

[SA Chris]

If you can, carry the weightiest things higher in the pack (shoulders) rather than lower back, or make some mods to the pack so this is possible. I have unintentionally run to work once with a big bulky laptop in my race vest (forgot to leave it at work) and was surprised it didn't feel too bad once i had it packed properly; high up, strapped in tight. Something to give it a bit of padding helps (I had it wrapped in a travel towel). 

[Bradders]

Thanks for all the advice, plenty of new ideas in there which I'll try.

[edshakey]

One for the sliders?

Fucking incredible effort on Tryfan Franco, the skidding looked horrifying.



The camera was cool for stabilising when you fell over, although a bit weird at times. But not really any other way to film something like that.
Hope to see you back for the record - pretty iconic one to grab if you manage it!

[chriss]

https://www.bbc.com/sport/athletics/63025365.amp


He's gone and done it again. Not the sub 2 he wanted, but wow. What a beast.

[T_B]

Watched most of it on some dodgy streaming service. I reckon he was definitely going for sub 2 given the split at half way. There were some pretty ‘slow’ km from around 27k so presumably he realised knocking out 2:50s was not sustainable and dialled it back. Still completely amazeballs.

Was also following YouTuber Nick Bester who was aiming for sub 2:20 and finished in 2:20:09. So close.

I’m running London a week today so psyche is high!

[chriss]

Yeah he definitely wanted sub 2, but hey ho. 2.20.09, dang just outside that's a strong time.

Good luck in London, fingers crossed for decent weather & the time you are aiming for.

[Fultonius]

That Franco vid was just bonkers!  Is it normal to spend so much time flipping, rolling, sliding and generally not being on your feet?

Maybe a pair of these next year....or is that cheating?? 

[SA Chris]

I’m running London a week today so psyche is high!

Good luck Tom, it's an incredible experience. Expect to run over the distance btw, and factor it into your pace, it's impossible not to. And get a pacing wrist band if you can, GPS goes to wonk in a few places, so watch not 100% reliable.

[SA Chris]

I'm made up, I managed a 1:38:03 Half Marathon PB at Crathes on Saturday. First Half since Feb 2020, and last PB was Great Aberdeen Half in 2018. Sometimes everything falls into place right..

[Duma]

Nice one Chris!

[edshakey]

I'm made up, I managed a 1:38:03 Half Marathon PB at Crathes on Saturday. First Half since Feb 2020, and last PB was Great Aberdeen Half in 2018. Sometimes everything falls into place right..

Great stuff, that's a quick time! And a bumpy course too, there's got to be even more time to take off at a faster race 

[SA Chris]

Yeah, I had it in mind the course was mostly tar, but a lot of tracks too. Weather was pretty ideal though, low teens, not a lot of wind and light drizzle about halfway. Not going to lie though, feels like carbon plate shoes (Vapourfly) do make a difference.

Need to decide if I want to commit to training for Dava Way Ultra (12 Nov) or do Fraserburgh Half (20 Nov) which is as flat as you like http://www.runningandtraveling.com/2020/11/fraserburgh-half-marathon.html

(And don't say do both!).

[edshakey]

Yeah, I had it in mind the course was mostly tar, but a lot of tracks too. Weather was pretty ideal though, low teens, not a lot of wind and light drizzle about halfway. Not going to lie though, feels like carbon plate shoes (Vapourfly) do make a difference.

I've not tried any "performance" type shoes, like the Vapourfly, I've been wondering whether to give it a try. The numbers of people I see with them is growing by the day, I can't decide if it's all just jumping on the bandwagon or if I'm missing out on huge potential gains!

Need to decide if I want to commit to training for Dava Way Ultra (12 Nov) or do Fraserburgh Half (20 Nov) which is as flat as you like http://www.runningandtraveling.com/2020/11/fraserburgh-half-marathon.html

What's your plan for next year? My process for deciding would be:

- if you're going to keep doing the ultras next year, and maybe this half marathon stuff is just a temporary phase, then do Fraserburgh. You've got good pace currently, and you've got time for a good 6/7 weeks training, taper, and then put in a solid race, with huge PB potential (flatter course, confidence, extra specific training, cooler temps). Then you can move towards distance after that, with a good record in the bank, and you'll have a nice foundation of pace to start the training in the new year.

- if you think you'll be doing fast halfs longer term, then I'd just do whichever race you're more interested in. There's no need to rush into trying to improve your half PB this year if you're going to keep pushing it next year so just go on the basis of enjoyment. Maybe the ultra will be a nice adventure (it does look very cool) and it won't do your half marathon times any harm.

(And don't say do both!).

If the dates were the other way round, doing both would be pretty plausible. A fast half is not ideal tapering for an ultra, but it wouldn't ruin your race (probably). But as it is, you'll probably not be in peak condition the week after the ultra, so your PB chances in the half will definitely take a hit. So yes, it looks like one or the other.

This is all how I'd approach it - your logic may vary! 

[sxrxg]

If you do go for some performance shoes with carbon and fancy foam it might be worth looking at Decathlon, they have released a high end shoe for £130 so about £100 less than most others.

https://www.decathlon.co.uk/p/kiprun-kd900x-men-s-running-shoes-with-carbon-plate-white/_/R-p-326082?mc=8666803&c=WHITE

[T_B]

It’s possible to pick up a pair of Vaporflys for £130 ish if your club has a 10% discount with Sportsshoes.com. Or they have a full range of sizes for Endorphin Pro 2s at the moment for £130. I’ve had a pair of Carbon X 2s for over a year but they’re pretty heavy and don’t seem to make me go any faster. Fairly certain you recover more quickly though.

[Stabbsy]

On the carbon shoes point, it's worth having a look at this paper :-

https://scholarworks.sfasu.edu/kinesiology/33/

TL;DR not all carbon shoes gave a statistically significant improvement in running economy. A lot of the stuff I've read/listened to suggests that there are a couple of confounding factors when looking at carbon shoes and it isn't just the carbon plate that improves running economy. The increased stack height has the effect of increasing stride length but would be unstable without the curved carbon plate. However, the plate can only be curved because of the increased stack height and, if it wasn't curved, wouldn't have the same "propulsion" effect. Add to this that increased stack height is only possible because the density of the foam has been reduced so you aren't carrying extra weight on the end of each leg. So the end result is you can't separate the effects of the stack and the plate very easily. The Vaporfly has both, but not everything does.

FWIW I've ended up with a pair of Saucony Endorphin Pros (small improvement over non-carbon in the paper), largely because I'm a huge fan of the Endorphin Speed so I went with what I know. You can definitely feel the additional stiffness off the foot, but they aren't noticeably stiffer to run in - although I only wear them for races when I'm pushing far harder so difficult to compare. I've been really resistant to going down the Vaporfly route as, if they are as good as people say, I'd get a PB and wouldn't know if it was me or the shoes - I only bought the Pros as they lighter than the Endorphin Speed.

Need to decide if I want to commit to training for Dava Way Ultra (12 Nov) or do Fraserburgh Half (20 Nov) which is as flat as you like http://www.runningandtraveling.com/2020/11/fraserburgh-half-marathon.html

(And don't say do both!).

I'd do the half - fitness, motivation and a good course don't always come round at once. Folks like us on the wrong side of 40 need to take the PB opportunities when they arise as they won't keep coming.