[Tommy]

Was just wondering - where and what is "Bristol Dreaming" and also what the details of "The Optimist"?

Not having the Ru-guide and not finding much info on the web, so all help much appreciated 

[dave]

bristol dreaming is the left arete of the main buttress, looks like it'd be hands on both the arete and the westwood crack, done with gear in the crack originally (might be highballable these days with enough mats) with some finish, can't remember offhand where it goes at the top. i believe the optimist is what rich simpson claimed the traverse into hats for westwoods or whatever its called as.

[Tommy]

Bristol Dreaming: So kind of a highball/route top out for Hats for Clowns/Pecry/Weasel (is that the name??).

Optimist: I'd always wondered whether the link-up traverse would get done... So that's the traverse, into the dyno, into the finger crack thingy? That's a mighty impressive piece of linked bouldering!

[dave]

Bristol Dreaming: So kind of a highball/route top out for Hats for Clowns/Pecry/Weasel (is that the name??).

yeah, although at E4 6c its going to be very well protected, i mean that crack probably gives you a bomber nut whereever you've got the energy to place one. aught not to be too hard a problem i'd have thought.

[Andy B]

Westwood is the sitter to Hats for Clowns,
Hats for youths is Westwood into the highball crack (without the arete)
The Optimist is eatswood Traverse into Hats for Youths.

I haven't looked that closely but I thought the crack was generally fairly flared, and may not contain quite as many bomber placements as I would hope for.

[Paz]

Can I assume Bristol Dreaming was a Mark Turnbull route, and not a cynical reference to Bristol Heel usage?

[cofe]

Bristol Dreaming: So kind of a highball/route top out for Hats for Clowns/Pecry/Weasel (is that the name??).

not exactly a top out. think you start left of/above these probs on the rising good holds. think there is at least one good wire placement but thought this had deteriorated for some reason. maybe sparrows flying into it like they do with windows. not smart birds are they? i'd have a bird of prey if given the choice. a skilled predator like a marsh harrier, or something mean like a condor.

i'm sure this is highballable now, only problem being that i only seem to go to eatswood when it's raining. you should be able to escape at the ledge. route guidebook recommends finishing up Mr Crispy Cruise, E3 5c, the steep right hand side of the upper arete with flakes and pockets.

Paz - FA Simon Lee.

[Paz]

Really?  Not the Simon with the poem in the chatsworth guide with photos on Gom Jabbar and Kaluza, but the High Tor guru, Seb's mate? ;-)  He told me he had family down here last christmas so that'd make sense.

[dave]

you're thinking of simon jones paz. guy with floppy hair followed around by dave simmonite circa 1995.

[Somebody's Fool]

Cofe.  You can catch a condor by simply building a wooden stockade one metre high and fifty metres in diameter, and placing a dead goat in the centre.  The bird will land inside to feed on the goat, but will then be unable to escape. This is because condors require a 'run up' of at least 100 metres before they can take off.

[cofe]

cheers. i'll try that next time i'm at chessington world of adventures.

[SA Chris]

You can catch ducks with a piece of bacon rind ans some fishing line. Ducks love bacon but are unable to digest it. So you tie a length of fishing line to a tree, and tie the other end to some line. After a month or so several ducks will have eaten the same piece of rind and it will have gone right through their systems. You just untie the fishing line from the tree and reel em in. Simple.

[Dolly]

I'm sure Simon would love to be known as the High Tor Guru
I also finished on the ledge when I did it  (Bristol Dreaming) and sort of slid down the other side of the arete to get down.

[dave k]

Is bouldering allowed at eatswood? I take it from the discussion that people are going there. I will have to visit.

Is anyone still bouldering inconspicuously at Eagle Tor? Can`t see the children playing out there during the winter. (maybe we could negotiate a bouldering season - say Oct to Feb)  The only 7c+ that I have ever got close to climbing is there.

[Johnny Brown]

Bouldering is not allowed at Eagle Tor but I've never been caught. If you approach without passing the house (cratcliffe side is best) you'll not be seen. No shouting obviously.

[dave k]

I thought someone on here said that the climbing community had agreed not to boulder at Eagle Torr any more. Some thing about the children of the owners being allowed to play in the area. If this is not the case, then I will be making a stealth mission soon.

[dave]

this is still the case.

http://www.thebmc.co.uk/bmccrag/ViewCrag.aspx?id=630

[Stubbs]

Just because someone anonymous on a forum says it's O.K doesn't make it so....

[dave k]

But how many people have been there anyway?

Don`t see the difference between that and eatswood, which it sounds is a popular venue.

Personally I would risk getting caught, as long as it didn`t scupper any discussions to deal with the ban

[slackline]

Personally I would risk getting caught, as long as it didn`t scupper any discussions to deal with the ban

And there in lies the moral quandary you face when deciding to climb at a venue where access is under discussion.

If you get caught you may well scupper the discussions that are (presumably) underway, which would be  from those who have had the self control to wait and see how things transpire.

[dave]

Don`t see the difference between that and eatswood, which it sounds is a popular venue.

eagle tor: recently banned quite reasonably by seemingly reasonable people because of concerns over overuse/behaviour/litter/etc. don't want their kids running though piles of bogroll etc. crag next to their house. situation might be up for negotiation (?) could be made worse by climbers visibly flaunting the request to not go there.

eatswood: been banned for years, seamingly with no justification by reputedly unreasonable farmer. nowhere near his house and you're not visible from anywhere whilst bouldering. unnegotiable position you're realistically not likely to make worse by going. probably have to wait for the farmer to die before access would be allowed?

[dave k]

Thought that might be the case. Bloody shame mind. I was there lots over the last 5 years- most of the time by myself and never more than one other person. Not exactly an extensive venue- just a handful of very high quality problems.

Will be visiting eatswood soon though.

[Johnny Brown]

If you get caught you may well scupper the discussions that are (presumably) underway, which would be  thumbs down from those who have had the self control to wait and see how things transpire.

There was a bit of discussion on these subjects at the BMC meet last night. The general attitude is temporary bans should be supported to show willingness to cooperate with other land uses. Permanent bans should be fought. Staying away permanently can make landowners think that a permanent ban is achievable and climbers aren't that bothered anyway. Permanently having to turf polite folk who are not actually causing a problem off land is more likely to push them towards a compromise where access is tolerated.

Remember precedents are very important here. When access is disputed, a long record of access counts in our favour. Long periods without access count in the landowners favour.

Trespass is not a crime in this country, or at least not one you can get prosecuted for. I think most folk can judge when they are in someone's garden or not. Eagle Tor is not in someone's garden, the land is not used for any prupose other than walking and climbing. Go there, keep a low profile, and you'll encounter no problems. Go there and make a mess, noise etc, and yes, you may cause problems.

But remember, in 1998, no one was banned. In 1999, no one was banned. In 2000, no one was banned. In 2001, no one was banned. In 2002, no one was banned.  In 2003, no one was banned. In 2004, no one was banned. In 2005, no one was banned. In 2006, no one was banned. In 2007, some one did a shit, and was banned.

eatswood is not a popular venue unless it rains for ten days straight. However, unlike Eagle Tor, access has always been a problem here (the farmer doesn't like us) and is likely to remain so until ownership changes.

Whilst we're on the subject, a gun club is currently trying to stop access to Shooter's Nab. If you're local try to get up there and climb, or at least use the footpath.

[GCW]

But remember, in 1998, no one was banned. In 1999, no one was banned. In 2000, no one was banned. In 2001, no one was banned. In 2002, no one was banned.  In 2003, no one was banned. In 2004, no one was banned. In 2005, no one was banned. In 2006, no one was banned. In 2007, some one did a shit, and was banned.

I was reading that in a nerdy voice in my head.  Class.

[Stu Littlefair]

But remember, in 1998, no one was banned. In 1999, no one was banned. In 2000, no one was banned. In 2001, no one was banned. In 2002, no one was banned.  In 2003, no one was banned. In 2004, no one was banned. In 2005, no one was banned. In 2006, no one was banned. In 2007, some one did a shit, and was banned.

Not sure what point you're trying to make here Mr Well Brown? If it's that the ban was a knee-jerk reaction I was more under the impression that it was a straw-that-broke-the-camels-back, sort of thing?

[Johnny Brown]

The ban came about mainly due to a change of ownership. Daughter returned from city to live in her childhood home to bring up her kids, sudden panic when she discovers the scrubby hilltop near the house is now popular with topless young men. Classic NIMBYism, that's about the size of it, the thing about her finding shit became the turning point because its obviously unreasonable. The point I'm trying to make is that for ten years her Dad had no major issues with boulderers.

[grimer]

I have some sympathy with the landowner. And, as the title implies, she does own the land, and does live very close. I think it's very nice of someone to tolerate ever-growing groups of strangers mooching about on your property, even if there is no obvious cost to it. But once there starts to be very obvious and tangiable downsides to this tolerance, eg, your kid coming home smeared in human shit, if i remember and understand correctly, it's fairly understandable to get fed up.

Imagine looking out your back window to see someone cutting one off in your yard?

Sometimes the need for respect is more important than the right of access.

[Johnny Brown]

I've got sympathy with the landowner too, and none with the folk who shit here. But this

Imagine looking out your back window to see someone cutting one off in your yard?

is bollocks. You can't see the crag from the house nor the house from the crag. It's not their garden or in view like bits of Ramshaw or Hugencroft.

[grimer]

Right then! I've been munching down on cabbage, tomato skins and peanut butter now for three days without a single movement. I'm going to drink 2 cups of coffee and smoke four fags and I'll be round in 20 minutes. Open your back window and get your flashlight ready, I'm IN UR YARD AN CUTTIN 1 OF

Contact Simon Jacques about datttt!!!

[Johnny Brown]

Nevermind the flashlight, I've got multiple cordless speedlights AN A BIG CAMERA!! I'll paper the city with your spotty irish arse.

[nik at work]

It's not their garden or in view like bits of Ramshaw or Hugencroft.

I've only been a couple of times and not for ages but it is their garden isn't it? I mean okay it's not all raised beds and planters with some decking and a barbeque but it is still their garden. They let us complete strangers use it for a period of time, we collectively took the piss and they decided to stop access. End of. Any further use of the venue is just antagonising them, not establishing a precedent of access. The fact that it is out of sight of the house is completely irrelevant. Several parts of my garden can't be seen by looking out of my windows, that doesn't mean I'm happy for people to crap there. It's a shame that this venue has become banned but rather than trying to paint the landowner as some unreasonable townie who has moved from the city we should take a look at our own actions which are the real problem.

[account_inactive]

Imagine looking out your back window to see someone cutting one off in your yard?

Reminds me of living in Hackney........

[Paz]

Just because someone anonymous on a forum says it's O.K doesn't make it so....

Yeah for example, fixed fishing lines are illegal, even if you are after ducks.

[Johnny Brown]

It's not their garden or in view like bits of Ramshaw or Hugencroft.

I've only been a couple of times and not for ages but it is their garden isn't it? I mean okay it's not all raised beds and planters with some decking and a barbeque but it is still their garden.

BOLLOCKS! It really isn't. Please stop perpetuating this myth. Its their land, yes, its adjacent to  their house, yes, is it their garden, no. Several paths weave through it, none go to or from the house, they go to or from elsewhere.

More importantly perhaps, the type of land is that of a small moor, it has never been cultivated, lies in a national park and really should be open access under CROW. I think the reason it isn't is that its too small, not high enough or was just overlooked.

[a dense loner]

i read that post paz. the world opens up new oppurtunities when you speak english

[Jim]

BOLLOCKS! It really isn't. Please stop perpetuating this myth. Its their land, yes, its adjacent to  their house, yes, is it their garden, no. Several paths weave through it, none go to or from the house, they go to or from elsewhere.

More importantly perhaps, the type of land is that of a small moor, it has never been cultivated, lies in a national park and really should be open access under CROW. I think the reason it isn't is that its too small, not high enough or was just overlooked.

Strongly agree with JB on this one

[nik at work]

Calm down dear, it's just a bouldering area.

Like I said I've not been much, and every time I've approached past the house. This has perhaps clouded my judgement. Hey-ho.

Anyway garden-shmarden the main point is the bit below that about collectively facing up to our failings rather than rolling out the old miserable-cunt-just-been-awkward stuff. Yes some people are miserable cunts (eatswood farmer been a point in case) but that doesn't excuse poor behaviour by us.

As mother says "two wrongs don't make a right, unless you're going to eatswood..."

[Fiend]

I never approached Eagle Tor from anywhere other than the Cratcliffe parking - I was highly surprised to hear there is an alternate route.

My view corresponds to 75% dave and 25% JB. I wouldn't recommend drinking it.

[Jerry Morefat]

BOLLOCKS! It really isn't. Please stop perpetuating this myth. Its their land, yes, its adjacent to  their house, yes, is it their garden, no. Several paths weave through it, none go to or from the house, they go to or from elsewhere.

More importantly perhaps, the type of land is that of a small moor, it has never been cultivated, lies in a national park and really should be open access under CROW. I think the reason it isn't is that its too small, not high enough or was just overlooked.

Think you're spot on here. If I was but a mere ukbouldering nipper I would be sending some Karma your way. Surely somewhere like eagle tor which provides lots of enjoyment to climbers and walkers should be enjoyed by all and not just by the person who happens to own the land; in the same way great works of art should be displayed in public galleries for all to enjoy and not in someone's private collection. After all, "property is theft" and all that malarkey.

[nik at work]

BOLLOCKS! It really isn't. Please stop perpetuating this myth. Its their land, yes, its adjacent to  their house, yes, is it their garden, no. Several paths weave through it, none go to or from the house, they go to or from elsewhere.

I'm not sure what the relevance of the paths is? Of course there are paths, the owner previously allowed access. And very nice of them it was to.

More importantly perhaps, the type of land is that of a small moor, it has never been cultivated, lies in a national park and really should be open access under CROW. I think the reason it isn't is that its too small, not high enough or was just overlooked.

Quite possibly, but then surely there is a way of submitting it to be included in CROW. Maybe we should be concentrating our energies on doing this?

[account_inactive]

I never approached Eagle Tor from anywhere other than the Cratcliffe parking - I was highly surprised to hear there is an alternate route.

My view corresponds to 75% dave and 25% JB. I wouldn't recommend drinking it.

Likewise.  I've only been once and was surprised to hear there was a house.

Unfortunately I took Sharma and some of his mates.  The 'whoops' and 'kill it' noises might have travelled...........

[Fj]

I think its a real shame to lose access as what the problems lack in quantity they make up with quality.
How about the BMC trying to buy the land the boulders are on.
If their kids are young enough to come home smeared in shite should they really be playing in woods out of sight? 

[Dave Westlake]

Hi everyone,

While we're on the topic of eatswood, could someone give me directions ?  (from Nottingham if poss)

Also, what are conditions like for river of live ? i.e. after a long period of rain does it seep? does it dry quick etc?

Also...is there a topo for eatswood anywhere on the net?

Thanks in advance!

Dave

[r-man]

River of Life isn't at eatswood, though it isn't far away.

ROL is at Turningstone - there's a topo here: http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,7095.msg103573.html#msg103573

And a map on the next page.

eatswood is very roughly here (ukc map link): http://www.streetmap.co.uk/newmap.srf?x=436050&y=363350&z=3&sv=SK360633&st=5

From Ashover, drive uphill and turn left. Park on the G in Grange (obvious parking) and walk back round corner and downhill to the woods. Cross the wall at a small layby and follow the path through the woods till you reach the crag. Most of the problems are on or around the same bit of rock, the impressive steep wave of grit.

[Andy B]

River of Life seeps, and I think James had a bit of bother finding it dry when he was doing it, but it had been raining and snowing for days before Bonjoy and myself went to do it, and it was bone dry. Maybe we were lucky. One of the flakes at the back of the roof seems very likely to snap with abuse so be careful trying it if it's damp.

eatswood is in Ru's guide and everything except the stuff described above is in there.

Hope this is some help.

[Dave Westlake]

Thanks r-man and Andy,

I knew ROL was at turningstone really, it was late last night and i got it mixed up with eatswood!   

cheers for the pointers!

dave

[dpb]

[

Think you're spot on here. If I was but a mere ukbouldering nipper I would be sending some Karma your way. Surely somewhere like eagle tor which provides lots of enjoyment to climbers and walkers should be enjoyed by all and not just by the person who happens to own the land; in the same way great works of art should be displayed in public galleries for all to enjoy and not in someone's private collection. After all, "property is theft" and all that malarkey.

Reckon you might find that if people shat on The Mona Lisa she would be whipped off the wall n put in safe pretty sharpish.

Right to roam n all that is great but surely the landowners deserve to have their land respected?  If climbers don't respect other peoples land how the hell can we think we have the God given right to be on it?

[Jerry Morefat]

Reckon you might find that if people shat on The Mona Lisa she would be whipped off the wall n put in safe pretty sharpish.

Fair enough, but I think that is a separate issue. Obviously climbers should make an effort to keep the crags in a decent condition, but my original point was made with regards to the rights people have to the crags in the first place. Because Eagle Tor holds so much significance with so many climbers as well as walkers and eagle tor isn't in anyone's 'back garden', then these climbers and walkers should have the right to use and enjoy it. I think this is essentially the logic behind CROW, which gives climbers and walkers the right to access privately owned land.

[Jacqusie]

Right then! I've been munching down on cabbage, tomato skins and peanut butter now for three days without a single movement. I'm going to drink 2 cups of coffee and smoke four fags and I'll be round in 20 minutes. Open your back window and get your flashlight ready, I'm IN UR YARD AN CUTTIN 1 OF

Contact Simon Jacques about datttt!!!

...err - thanks Grimer - but I'll probably be busy that day with Nesting Ring Greckels & red faced Game keepers after that...

(are you quite sure that was in the constitution?!)