[Steve R]

All I managed to glean from a search on here was that it's actually V7 or so and there's 'fancy beta' available but no further elaboration.  So anyone care to?  Had my first session on it today and got all the moves.  Getting out to the keel seemed easy enough going with either hand but I was going with the left then reaching out to the chip with the right having worked my right foot into the slot.  Then I was putting my left heel above my left hand (seemed to work better than the toe hooks) on the keel hold and matching the chip static.  So far so good.... Then holding the mighty swing when I took my feet off felt like the hardest move followed by a bit of adjusting to get left hand better and finally a straight forward campus to the pocket - which i'm prbably not strong enough to do on the link .  Judging from the photos in the book looks like that's a fairly accepted sequence.  Just after some tips really....
All in all a good day topped off by dishing out beta a couple of times on request for Jackie Godoffe.  Quality! felt like a local even though i'm not.

[cofe]

So far so good.... Then holding the mighty swing when I took my feet off felt like the hardest move followed by a bit of adjusting to get left hand better and finally a straight forward campus to the pocket - which i'm prbably not strong enough to do on the link . 

not sure which move you're having problem with but pretty sure that instead putting effort into trying to hold the swing just get your hands sorted  on the chip (get your left on good) while both feet are still in slot/around keel. then move RH up a bit to the lip hold on reel keel, and then go in one motion (feet out, RH up) to the pocket. other than that your beta sounds about right. no doubt some smart arse will correct me. good problem. it's not V7.

[dave]

its about 7b+ and bear in mind the cutting loose sequence is why people used to think it was V10 = bad beta. even if you're wearing a camo baseball hat on backwards its still bad beta (unless you're some kind of topheavy runt).

[Steve R]

nice one, that sounds sensible, cheers.  I thought there must be better options than trying to more or less swap hands on the chip footless  . Not sure I'm solid enough to manipulate my hands around keeping my feet  on though. like i say, got R foot in the slot, left heel on the keel, is this best for a 5'9" person?
good fun today though, might try again on friday - weather looks good

[Steve R]

(unless you're some kind of topheavy runt).

nah, just a heavy runt

[dave]

one bit of beta i never had but have heard since is to go out to the lip with right hand but instead of getting the chip (and thus having to match it) get the little crimp-sloper on the real keal instead (cofe mentions this above, its much better than it looks) then do your foot thing to grab the keel with left hand, thus avoiding any fingershuffle matching on the keel footless or otherwise, and sets you upnice for the slap to the pocket. as i say i've never tried this but makes sense to me, and from trying the real keel i know holding the sloper on the lip is OK - at least your wrist is at a natiural angle unlike when holding the chip.

[nathan wind]

Using the crimp from the real keel for my RH works best for me... I get the chipped hold with my RH first off (LH still on the keel / fin), get my RF in the crack, LF heel hooks somewhere near my LH (whilst its still on the keel), release LH, match, swap hands in the chip then move my RH up to the crimp, get sorted, then release my RF so its in a position where I can use it to push off the keel / fin itself, from here I can pretty much static it / bounce into the pocket... no swing.. match pocket then LH reaches across towards the bulb... felt it was maybe 7c this way.. hope this helps..

[tomtom]

I'm going backwards on the Keel... ever since my first two sessions on it I've been getting worse. I have my sequence and I'm tickling the final pocket, but in the last two sessions I just seem to be getting worse! The RF I had well wedged in the roof slot now seems to be popping out every time.. I really dont know what I'm doing differently - the boots that seemed to lock in so well now just pop out. Grr..
I wondered if the Left Heel aroudn the back of the keel wasnt locking me in well enough, but I think its that right toe lock thats just letting me down.. hmm.. any reccomendations for some boots that work well in that slot?

ps. I realise this post doesnt make too much sense - its just proving rather frustrating...

[robertostallioni]

Are you using uptowns numbers?

[account_inactive]

Also try clamping the keel with the flat of your left foot rather than your heel

[tomtom]

Are you using uptowns numbers?

Yup - works, sorry worked spot on for me - pretty much like the yorkshiregrit.com vid...

[tomtom]

Also try clamping the keel with the flat of your left foot rather than your heel

OK, so heel and flat of foot on the back of the keel - with toe pointing towards the start, or toe pointing upwards - sounds interesting...

[account_inactive]

Right toe in pocket as before and then left foot (sole) on left side of the keel hold.  Squeeze both feet together like you are trying to put both soles together.  When you get to the point of cutting loose you can drag you feet along the keel to slow you down.  Hope that helps

[Johnny Brown]

Memory is vague bit I think somehow you can get your legs out left to wrap the lip and cut the harshness out of the swing.

[dave]

I'm going backwards on the Keel... ever since my first two sessions on it I've been getting worse. I have my sequence and I'm tickling the final pocket, but in the last two sessions I just seem to be getting worse! The RF I had well wedged in the roof slot now seems to be popping out every time.. I really dont know what I'm doing differently - the boots that seemed to lock in so well now just pop out. Grr..
I wondered if the Left Heel aroudn the back of the keel wasnt locking me in well enough, but I think its that right toe lock thats just letting me down.. hmm.. any reccomendations for some boots that work well in that slot?

ps. I realise this post doesnt make too much sense - its just proving rather frustrating...

Take your right boot off, trust me you'll piss it.

[tomtom]

Seriously Dave?

[robertostallioni]

Do you even use the slot behind the keel "fin" hold for your right foot? I thought (being a lankmeister), you could keep it in the back break till the pocket pop, off guru's intermediate? The below beta is standard for the pocket campus/semi-campus way, is it not?

[dave]

Seriously Dave?

Seriously! that slot in the roof is like a jug if you're barefoot.

[tomtom]

Thanks for the words Gents,

Seriously Dave?

Seriously! that slot in the roof is like a jug if you're barefoot.

:D Wow! I'll try that tomorrow! Though I dont fancy the top out barefoot...

Do you even use the slot behind the keel "fin" hold for your right foot? I thought (being a lankmeister), you could keep it in the back break till the pocket pop, off guru's intermediate? The below beta is standard for the pocket campus/semi-campus way, is it not?

Yes, my method so far is Uptowns numbers (bar the intermediate on the way to the pocket - can't hold the slopy nothingness..) I can keep a/the feet on the back wall/break and match the chipped hold on the lip, but I think I need to move my RF into the slot in order to get enough push, squirm heave up to the pocket - otherwise too stretched out... though I'll try this...

Its just really weird that the first couple of sessions it all held together really well, and it was clearly a lack of campus strength/capability or timing on the lunge to get the pocket (as I was tickling the edge of it). Wheras now, I only seem to get to match the lip once or twice per session *shrugs* - frustrating. The foot in the slot and the heel round the back of the keel just plop off when I release the keep with my LH to go to match.. Last time I tried all sorts of slightly different left heel placements and subtle weight adjustments and no cigar.. which led me to think it may be something failing in that right foot lock. I'll go commando (foot wise) like Dave said and that should clear up whether or not its a footlock issue or just one of general shitness!

[moose]

I remember when I did it, I used roughly the same method as you and spent months "tickling" the pocket - from having my RF in slot, Lheel clamping keel, LH in chip and RH on slopey crimp. 

What made the difference was that I stopped trying to keep the left heel in place.  Not too long later it was in the bag - that left heel was just holding me back.  When I started letting it fly rightwards as was its wont, it gave me a bit more freedom of movement and a few more inches of reach.  It also helped with the next move - as I just let the RF keep moving until I could wrap my legs around the prow and match the pocket. 

Felt like an odd tactic (or lack of one) to adopt, I'm generally utterly dependent on keep feet-on-at-all-times foot-faddling - result of long legs and no campus strength.  But, for the Keel, a sacrifice in the name of a bit more dynamism made all the difference.

[tomtom]

Thanks Moose - I was a little confused, do you mean release the left foot/leg to flag when going for the lunge or the right foot?

[moose]

Sorry - typo in previous post.  Let the LF unclamp from the fin whilst going for the pocket - don't worry about keeping it in place as that might restrict reach (I keep the Rtoe in slot though... well try to).  I kept the LF moving and clamped / scummed the prow with it so I could match the pocket (I end up with legs astride the prow, looking as though I'mtrying to 'hump' it!).

[tomtom]

Thanks Moose, that makes compete sense. I've practiced what happens if I actually get the pocket - and it involves a fair degree of arête humping (and knees!)

Off to try now...

[GCW]

Sorry - typo in previous post.  Let the LF unclamp from the fin whilst going for the pocket - don't worry about keeping it in place as that might restrict reach (I keep the Rtoe in slot though... well try to).  I kept the LF moving and clamped / scummed the prow with it so I could match the pocket (I end up with legs astride the prow, looking as though I'mtrying to 'hump' it!).

How tall are you, Moose?  I always felt the right foot could stay in the slot, but it always seems to pop out going for the pocket.

[uptown]

How tall are you, Moose?  I always felt the right foot could stay in the slot, but it always seems to pop out going for the pocket.

My method gets the pocket whilst keeping your rightfoot in the slot still (although it does sometimes pop out at the very last moment). I'm 5'10" or thereabouts so most folk should be ok with this. The trick is not to be strong but subtle - twist your right hip up and your left hip down to fit the contour of the roof. The more twist you put in the less likely it is for your foot to pop out of the slot. Reaching the high nonhold before going to the pocket does two things - enables you to fully bone the chip, and makes the move to the pocket much shorter and so more controllable.
I just looked at YG and saw some vid - that's good beta for weaker types. If you're strong though just yard it!
I can't see you struggling too much when you're fully familiar Tom. Good luck!

[GCW]

I've tried that intermediate you showed me, didn't seem to work for me.  Not been back on it for ages though, maybe the time approaches.

[moose]

How tall are you, Moose?  I always felt the right foot could stay in the slot, but it always seems to pop out going for the pocket.

I'm 6'3" and horrendously lanky and spindly - all legs and knees.  Doubt I'd get near the keel now - lost weight and just don't have the beef or energy (despite keeping bouldering indoors I suspect I've got a lot weaker).  Got a feeling my return from Reynaulds induced winter hibernation is going to be a chastening experience.

[tomtom]

A live report from the Keel...  ....  ......

Uptowns numbers are right, it's much better if I suck my right hip into the roof and just place the left heel around the back of the Keel rather than sagging down to look where to place it.. Tired now but back to where I was I can see what you mean Moose about flagging that left leg out. Then the lunge for the pocket is a swivel on a locked left arm and the right toe.
Gorgeous here now after a cold start. But running out of juice!

[sjw]

Uptowns numbers are right

In my limited experience, Uptown 'The Mathematician' is never wrong with numbers. And tomtom, surely you know that you'll definitely get it on your very, very last go when you've got no skin and are proper knackered?!

[tomtom]

Sadly no today.. But next time maybe...

Cheers for all the help, I've got my Sequence well wired now up to the pop which is good, as I seem to have regained the ground I'd lost, so I'm happy :D