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Yorkshire Grit Bouldering Guide (Read 69266 times)

nathan wind

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#125 Re: Yorkshire Grit Bouldering Guide
January 25, 2008, 01:25:24 pm
the thing about the layout for me is that having used so many photos per page the amount of space left to write up the problems seems pretty minimal.. I think ru's guide mixes illustration and photos far more effectively..

also I think the lack of information is pretty glaring throughout and doesn't acknowledge a lot of tradition.. especially with regard to eliminates.. the back of the calf being a good example.. like houdini I'd rather a few photos were missing and more info was included.. no two squirrels / drey at caley is a bit of a shocker.. as for me these are two of the best problems at the crag.. but then even bob's bastard was left out..

Houdini

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#126 Re: Yorkshire Grit Bouldering Guide
January 25, 2008, 01:35:20 pm
Guidebook writers must strike a finer balance between pics and text - what are you making here?  A photo album?  There's is probably a market for that; perhaps they should've published both?

nathan wind

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#127 Re: Yorkshire Grit Bouldering Guide
January 25, 2008, 01:36:54 pm
er.. when I say eliminates.. I meant 'face diagrams', if that makes any sense, akin to the minus ten wall diagram in the new peak guide... I'd have liked a few of those..

cofe

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#128 Re: Yorkshire Grit Bouldering Guide
January 25, 2008, 01:47:12 pm
back off topic, i dug out the original of the barry kingsize photo:


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#129 Re: Yorkshire Grit Bouldering Guide
January 25, 2008, 01:53:31 pm
Nice one Cofe :lol:

My copy dropped through the letterbox this morning.  The first thing that struck me is the lines on the topo are not curves, but a series of straicht lines.  I don't like the look of that very much, curves are far neater.
I'll have a proper look and post more later.

dave

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#130 Re: Yorkshire Grit Bouldering Guide
January 25, 2008, 01:55:31 pm
nice one keith, that must be one hell of a studio strobe you used to light that.

Greg C

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#131 Re: Yorkshire Grit Bouldering Guide
January 25, 2008, 02:34:49 pm
This is a great photo but the sky looks photoshopped, is it?

get a grip man.  ::)

Why would I want one? There's no cable cars round our way. http://www.infoplease.com/dictionary/gripman

cofe

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#132 Re: Yorkshire Grit Bouldering Guide
January 25, 2008, 03:52:22 pm
touchet.  ;)

Houdini

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#133 Re: Yorkshire Grit Bouldering Guide
January 25, 2008, 03:56:09 pm
There's no way I'm touchin' it, Gaylord!



Oh!   You mean touche?





(sorry  ;))

Sypeland

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#134 Re: Yorkshire Grit Bouldering Guide
January 25, 2008, 04:07:35 pm


My copy dropped through the letterbox this morning.  The first thing that struck me is the lines on the topo are not curves, but a series of straicht lines.  I don't like the look of that very much, curves are far neater.
I'll have a proper look and post more later.

I hopefully packed it so it didn't get damaged :)


Jim

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#135 Re: Yorkshire Grit Bouldering Guide
January 25, 2008, 04:12:53 pm
yorkshire really needed a new guide.. but not this one..

I think this sums it up nicely

cofe

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#136 Re: Yorkshire Grit Bouldering Guide
January 25, 2008, 04:25:34 pm
There's no way I'm touchin' it, Gaylord!



Oh!   You mean touche?





(sorry  ;))

pedant ;D

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#137 Re: Yorkshire Grit Bouldering Guide
January 25, 2008, 04:26:55 pm
I hopefully packed it so it didn't get damaged :)

Yeah, it's fine thanks.  I could have done with some of those hand warmers yesterday too :lol:

Houdini

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#138 Re: Yorkshire Grit Bouldering Guide
January 25, 2008, 04:30:03 pm
pedant ;D

Si si, muchos pedantos Senor Gringo.

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#139 Re: Yorkshire Grit Bouldering Guide
January 25, 2008, 04:32:33 pm
I've found quite a few typos so far.  Plus lots of grades that don't match the general consensus on YorkshireGrit.  Is that groove right of Splashdown (Widdop) really  6c?  I find it harder than the wall left of Splashdown.
But it looks neat.

lagerstarfish

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#140 Re: Yorkshire Grit Bouldering Guide
January 25, 2008, 04:38:08 pm
I don't have a Yorkshire Grit Bouldering Guide. Am I better off buying the old one, or the new one?

GCW

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#141 Re: Yorkshire Grit Bouldering Guide
January 25, 2008, 04:58:44 pm
I would be tempted to say go for the old one plus use Jon's site to supplement it and get more accurate grades.  The new guide is nice etc but it's 20 quid and you can get the old one cheapo.
But remember I'm coming from the aspect of already having the old guide etc etc.

moose

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#142 Re: Yorkshire Grit Bouldering Guide
January 25, 2008, 09:51:53 pm
I must admit that I'm disappointed by the new guide too; both in terms of its basic planning and layout, and by its execution.  The timeline is as pointless a waste of paper as I have ever seen, possibly only included for the sake of a weak joke about Thatcherism. That it is included rather than a problem index seems bizarre, especially given the otherwise slavish devotion to the style of Ru's guide.  And, whilst I accept that any selective guide cannot by definition include everything, there do seem to be some perverse omissions.  For instance, the absence of a proper eliminates diagram for the Calf at Ilkley seems particularly strange given its place in Yorkshire climbing history and its status as pretty much the only weatherproof venue in the county. It just seems such a missed opportunity, I suspect I am not alone in the number of drizzly days spent under those 30 degrees of desperation, with old YGB guide in hand, trying to link numbered holds and muttering "surely that's a misprint?".   Similarly, but to a lesser extent, the lack of Crucifix (Almscliff) and Clingen Face (Woodhouse) eliminates is a bit of a surprise.   

I admit my opinions on the above, and matters such as the crags included (West Vale rather than Crookrise etc) can be discounted as subjective matters of personal style.  However, what is definitely less open to a differing interpretation is the tremendously inept execution.  An preliminary scan has revealed several examples of problem descriptions and topo lines being mixed up / missing, e.g. on the Seventh Wave at Widdop, or with Rageh Omar / Under Rumsfeild (sic) at Whitehouses.  The lines on the topos are ugly and look like they have been clumsily drawn on with the free drawing package in Word.  The number and frequency of spelling mistakes is utterly appalling and frankly insulting to the purchaser.  Reading the guide in a bad mood induced a mental sensation akin to reading a beloved novel rendered into teenage "txt spk" whilst listening to someone scratch a nail down a blackboard.  For pity's sake how difficult would it have been to get a few friends to proof read the initial drafts?  It is not as though most of the mistakes would have required any specialist knowledge to identify, just a remedial ability to read English and perhaps match numbers in the descriptions to those in the diagrams.  Perhaps too much time was spent agonising about the grades of barely climbed "test-pieces" and too little spent performing basic duties to the reader.  Far more professionalism is on display in the free topos at Lakesbloc, yorkshiregrit, and in some posts to these forums (e.g. the Churnet thread, some Woodhouse Scar stuff I recently received).  I feel more sad than angry though, a lot of hard work has obviously gone into it, the are some nice photos and I look forward to using it to plan future days out, but the overall impression has been poisoned by avoidable clumsiness.

Hey ho.. the guide has done something though.  Lots of photos of problems, even if the material around them is suspect, has finally got me feeling a post-Christmas inclination to leave my Leeds Wall comfort zone, brave the hideous weather, and do some cranking.  Worth it for that I guess, especially if I get a few good days at crags I have not yet visited (Scout Crag, Dove Stones etc).  Although when I do venture out, chances are that most often it'll be with my tattered old YGB guide, held together with Duck Tape and covered in annotations from the yorkshiregrit site. 

Houdini

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#143 Re: Yorkshire Grit Bouldering Guide
January 25, 2008, 10:12:19 pm
What an excellent review that was moose and what a balanced gentleman you appear to be.

Jacqusie

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#144 Re: Yorkshire Grit Bouldering Guide
January 25, 2008, 11:06:38 pm
I must admit that I'm disappointed by the new guide too; both in terms of its basic planning and layout, and by its execution.  The timeline is as pointless a waste of paper as I have ever seen, possibly only included for the sake of a weak joke about Thatcherism. That it is included rather than a problem index seems bizarre, especially given the otherwise slavish devotion to the style of Ru's guide.  And, whilst I accept that any selective guide cannot by definition include everything, there do seem to be some perverse omissions.  For instance, the absence of a proper eliminates diagram for the Calf at Ilkley seems particularly strange given its place in Yorkshire climbing history and its status as pretty much the only weatherproof venue in the county. It just seems such a missed opportunity, I suspect I am not alone in the number of drizzly days spent under those 30 degrees of desperation, with old YGB guide in hand, trying to link numbered holds and muttering "surely that's a misprint?".   Similarly, but to a lesser extent, the lack of Crucifix (Almscliff) and Clingen Face (Woodhouse) eliminates is a bit of a surprise.   

I admit my opinions on the above, and matters such as the crags included (West Vale rather than Crookrise etc) can be discounted as subjective matters of personal style.  However, what is definitely less open to a differing interpretation is the tremendously inept execution.  An preliminary scan has revealed several examples of problem descriptions and topo lines being mixed up / missing, e.g. on the Seventh Wave at Widdop, or with Rageh Omar / Under Rumsfeild (sic) at Whitehouses.  The lines on the topos are ugly and look like they have been clumsily drawn on with the free drawing package in Word.  The number and frequency of spelling mistakes is utterly appalling and frankly insulting to the purchaser.  Reading the guide in a bad mood induced a mental sensation akin to reading a beloved novel rendered into teenage "txt spk" whilst listening to someone scratch a nail down a blackboard.  For pity's sake how difficult would it have been to get a few friends to proof read the initial drafts?  It is not as though most of the mistakes would have required any specialist knowledge to identify, just a remedial ability to read English and perhaps match numbers in the descriptions to those in the diagrams.  Perhaps too much time was spent agonising about the grades of barely climbed "test-pieces" and too little spent performing basic duties to the reader.  Far more professionalism is on display in the free topos at Lakesbloc, yorkshiregrit, and in some posts to these forums (e.g. the Churnet thread, some Woodhouse Scar stuff I recently received).  I feel more sad than angry though, a lot of hard work has obviously gone into it, the are some nice photos and I look forward to using it to plan future days out, but the overall impression has been poisoned by avoidable clumsiness.

Hey ho.. the guide has done something though.  Lots of photos of problems, even if the material around them is suspect, has finally got me feeling a post-Christmas inclination to leave my Leeds Wall comfort zone, brave the hideous weather, and do some cranking.  Worth it for that I guess, especially if I get a few good days at crags I have not yet visited (Scout Crag, Dove Stones etc).  Although when I do venture out, chances are that most often it'll be with my tattered old YGB guide, held together with Duck Tape and covered in annotations from the yorkshiregrit site. 



soooooo   should I buy it??

 :-[

Houdini

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#145 Re: Yorkshire Grit Bouldering Guide
January 25, 2008, 11:21:59 pm
Well Jackusie, why not peruse it and decide for yourself?

« Last Edit: January 28, 2008, 01:09:54 pm by Bonjoy »

Andy B

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#146 Re: Yorkshire Grit Bouldering Guide
January 26, 2008, 01:00:02 am
i'm actually surprised bank's problem start to the left arete at whitehouses was left out, looked pretty good to me.

Hell yeah!

I'll pay you later

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#147 Re: Yorkshire Grit Bouldering Guide
January 26, 2008, 09:56:01 am
I also note quite a few of the topo numbers are different from the number of the problems described.
Moose-  West Vale is good, mainly for the all weather overhanging face.  This has loads of eliminates which are very good.  These have been omitted in the new guide.
Crookrise will be in the next part.
The cynical part of me thinks it's been released in 2 parts just to milk 40 quid out of us.  Although I may not be buying part 2 unless it is very different.

Guide writing ain't easy, so all credit to the boys for the effort.  But when you have sites like YG.com, the bar has been raised high and any guide has to be polished.  And you can't polish a turd.

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#148 Re: Yorkshire Grit Bouldering Guide
January 26, 2008, 11:00:31 am

I believe that the eventual plan re the eliminates on the Calf, Eggy face etc is to have them as topos on the Total-Climbing web sites and there are footnotes in the guide to suggest this to be the case.

I think that one of the reasons that the guide is so selective is because Steve was very concious about price point. He wanted to keep it at the 20 mark. Obviously the more that went into it the more the price would escalate, and he will have been restricted to a budget.

Vol 2 should retail at around the 15 mark (may be less may be more). So we're looking at around 35 for both volumes. Given that there are so many venues in Yorkshire (just look at the list on yorkshiregrit) how much would you be prepared to pay for a comprehensive guide? 50!


 

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#149 Re: Yorkshire Grit Bouldering Guide
January 26, 2008, 11:06:26 am
Aye, Big F, but it isn't a comprehensive guide.  Why not just use YG and donate 30 quid to Jon?  You would get up to date info, a consensus on grades with explanatory comments, useful vids/ photos.
We (should that be I?) still have a preference for a book.  There's something about having a physical book rather than scraps of paper.
Why does the Lakes Rockfax sell when Greg's guides are better?

Personally I don't think price should override quality/completeness.  If you go that route, market it as a selected guide.
These are all early criticisms.  When I've tried it at places I don't know I'll have a better idea as to functionality.