[Pantontino]

Another thing. You often here shit about various climbers, but it stands out thatI have never heard anyone ever, saying anything that ever took anything away from Joe Brown, John Allen and Johnny. I bet that says something about climbers like them.

Is that a challenge?! I'm sure the UKB inquisition squad can sniff something out.

 

Actually, I've never heard anyone slag Ben Moon off for dodgy practices. Obviously he pissed the French off by being better than them, but that doesn't count.

[dave]

except for that photo in Power of Climbing where he'd building some holds out of putty on hubble perhaps! trowel in hand.

[webbo]

there are chipped holds on silent spring and above and beyond.

[Jim]

or the pof rag in shot on brad pit front cover ote 67 was it?

[Pantontino]

Dave - he was filling holds in to make it harder, an admirable practice in my book.

Jim - good call, I'd forgotten about that. I remember being in a pub in Sheffield shortly after with CJD; we sat down with a group of Sheffield heads, including Ben, and CJD asked him if he reckoned he could have done Brad Pit without the pof. I nearly pissed myself laughing; Ben was less than amused by the implication.

Webbo - the crux sidepulls on Zoolook were (allegedly) star drilled to make them better. I won't say who told me that little snipe.

[dave]

wasn't it implied that ron chipped some holds on one step beyond?

[AndiT]

Ok, I've found it High Magazine Sept/Oct 1983 'Jerry Moffatt Climbs Master's Wall': No mention of a top rope, but he abseiled the line four times that day and had Stevie Haston shouting out where the holds were on his ascent, so not an on-sight but not a head point either. Just a well inspected line.

The article finished off with "The next big route I want to do is the lower section of Great Arete at Millstone. I've top-roped it properly, without any tension, but I'll wait until the cooler weather before I try and lead it. I'll call that Master's Arete, because anyone who came along and climbed it on sight would have to be The Master."

I suppose that clears up a couple of things.

[r-man]

This may be of interest to some - I just clicked a link to Urban Climber and noticed they are featuring, amongst other things, a homage to Johnny Dawes. Never read this magazine - is it any good?

 http://www.urbanclimbermag.com/

Whilst on the topic, what's the story behind the rumour of Johnny Dawes getting close on Superman? When was this, and how close did he get?

[cofe]

but he abseiled the line four times that day

genius.

[a dense loner]

talk about things getting blown out of all proportion. the story about johnny on superman will be from me, since i was there and was using it merely to chastise people who said he was weak. all i said was i was visibly shocked how strong he actually was compared to the myth that perpetuates him being weak. he was light years away from doing it but he was doing moves and looking like a bouncing ball on them. this was also in his post halcyon days. probably more impressive was him trying to double dyno lift off and landing like a cat 30 yards downhill

[grimer]

What's that Dense? You saw Johnny do Superman? Fucking amazing. I'd heard he was weak, but...

Where's that UKClimbing News button...

[a dense loner]

in fucking sneakers! the most amazing thing i ever saw. started getting nervous about the french spots tho

[AndiT]

Jesus, Johnny is Superman, always thought he had a warm glint to his eye and was sure I saw him wearing his pants on the outside on Superman VIII: The Best Forgotten Art.

[Andy F]

Both of the were ahead of the game at the time they were at their peak, but totally different in style. Johnny with his Grit/Slate/Mountain stuff and Jerry with his onsighting, bouldering, fast repeats and occasional new routes.

[grimer]

Is that a challenge?! I'm sure the UKB inquisition squad can sniff something out.

 

Easy on Simon, I'm not talking about rubber gloves, baby oil and a gritstone phallus. I mean in climbing terms.

[Johnny Brown]

Quite. What he does behind close doors is his business, it in no way demeans his climbing.

[Pantontino]

Easy on Simon, I'm not talking about rubber gloves, baby oil and a gritstone phallus. I mean in climbing terms.

Grimer, get your schoolboy mind out of the gutter. Don't you know that the UKB inquisition squad is only interested in matters of a high falutin nature - ours is a quest for pure ethics and daring deeds carried out in the face of overwhelming adversity.

Back to the matter in hand: I once heard tell of a certain rockstar who climbed a test piece route, then returned and knocked some of the holds off, just to make sure that the jackals waiting in the wings to repeat the route would have an extra hard time, thus cementing the reputation of the said rockstar. I also heard that another rockstar climbed a route with a particularly desperate crux sequence, only to see his extra tall second reach past the hard moves.  Peeved at the bypass of his masterpiece, this particular rockstar then abbed down and 'adjusted' the holds so that the reachy bypass could not be used.

It's all shocking stuff and one day somebody will have to spill it all in the ultimate expose: The 1980s uncovered!!!

[grimer]

Agreed, Simon. As Johnny Brown (quite apt) said, what he does to his own back door is his business.

So, are 'said' rock stars one of the three unimpeachibles? Was it Joe Brown (oh no! not him too!)?

[Jaspersharpe]

How about Fawcett not really climbing Zoolook? At least not in the conventional/modern sense of a one push/no falls ascent. The word at the crag when I was a frequent habitue of the Malham-Kilnsey-Gordale axis of steep whiteness was that (allegedly) big Ron had fallen off on the upper section, then lowered back to the big undercuts, and then pulled on and climbed from there to the top. It seems that in 1985 the redpoint ethic was not set in concrete. This could of course just have been malicious gossip, but I'd be curious to know if any of you old gits heard something similar on your travels.

I heard plenty of similar shit about Big Ron. It's always slightly tarnished his image for me but I suppose everyone was at it at the time. Be interesting to try to find out who actually did the first proper ascents of these routes (or rather the ascent which would be considered proper with today's ethics applied). Actually it would be a proper ball-ache to find out but interesting to know the answer if someone else did all the research. 

[fatboySlimfast]

Think it was widly reported that Ron had lowered down but not all the way, think he claimed he was lowering to a no hand rest where he could jam his head underneath an undercut and take his hands off briefly. It was acceptable to lower to a no hands rest at the time but I think Ron was bending the ethics slightly!

[Paz]

one day somebody will have to spill it all in the ultimate expose: The 1980s uncovered!!!

Haven't you got a gogarth guide to finish first?

[Pantontino]

Yes, I know, first things first. Working on Upper Tier topos right now.

...but one day, that 'other' book will get published (and whoever writes it will have to leave the country sharpish for fear of reprisals from a gaggle of aging rock stars)

[Paz]

Smart, that could do with some topos.  Out of curiosity what's the official advice going to be about the death gearing up/picnic spot above the collapsing descent gully?

[Jim]

...but one day, that 'other' book will get published (and whoever writes it will have to leave the country sharpish for fear of reprisals from a gaggle of aging rock stars)

That book would be fucking dynamite. Its a shame that it'll never be made

[Idol eyes]

Think about the autobiographys of Dawes and Muffatt,,,
Very big long words would be called something like, Vendi Vindi Vinci.
Can not spell words would be called, I looked good and felt grate! I was the beast!