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Tell us what you really think, Neko (Read 5189 times)

Bubba

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Tell us what you really think, Neko
June 29, 2007, 10:04:43 am

I liked this - it's part of an interview between Pitchforkmedia and Neko Case where she rips into singers using studio technology to correct bad singing:

Quote

Pitchfork: You seem like somebody who would be especially annoyed by the "American Idol"-ization of modern pop.

Case: You mean the horrible singing?

Pitchfork: Yes.

Case: When I think about Jackie Wilson or the Platters and then I think about modern, Top 40 music that's really horrible, it makes me mad. Singing isn't important anymore. I'm not a genius-- if I had been around during the time of Jackie Wilson or Rosemary Clooney or Patsy Cline, I would be shit. I would be singing in some bar somewhere for $5 a week and that's as far as I would ever go. But I'm living now and I write songs, it's different. There's some part about the craft of singing-- craft is too important of a word, I hate that word but I just used it anyway-- in a lot of places, it hasn't really made it. It's not to do with the people who are doing it as much as the people who are producing it. There's technology like auto tune and pitch shifting so you don't have to know how to sing. That shit sounds like shit! It's like that taste in diet soda, I can taste it-- and it makes me sick.

When I hear auto tune on somebody's voice, I don't take them seriously. Or you hear somebody like Alicia Keys, who I know is pretty good, and you'll hear a little bit of auto tune and you're like, "You're too fucking good for that. Why would you let them do that to you? Don't you know what that means?" It's not an effect like people try to say, it's for people like Shania Twain who can't sing. Yet there they are, all over the radio, jizzing saccharine all over you. It's a horrible sound and it's like, "Shania, spend an extra hour in the studio and you'll hit the note and it'll sound fine. Just work on it, it's not like making a burger!"

Pitchfork: She's pretty busy making videos and shit though.

Case: It's rough, I know. She's so rich she could get somebody else to do the other stuff while she spends that extra hour in the studio. Or Madonna! Just hit the note! Don't pretend it's William Orbit being crafty-- we know you're not hitting the note because you have other shit to do. You can do it, I have faith in you. But don't leave the studio before you hit that fucking note. And you know what? When you do hit it you're going to feel so much more valid that it'll come through in all the other shit you're supposed to be doing later in the day. Seriously!

And if Celine Dion is supposedly the great singer that she says she is why is there auto tune on every fucking word in her songs? Can't you just hit it, Celine? Do you have another baby book to shoot? You gotta paint your baby to look like a pot of peas? What are you doing that you can't be singing in the studio? It's your fucking job!

Pitchfork: Hey, that baby book is beautiful.

Case: You know that's the grossest thing I've ever seen. That was so nasty I almost had to hate some babies for that. But babies came back and said, "I'm not responsible for this, they made me do it." So I decided that I still love babies.

Pitchfork: You seem to be following this book closely.

Case: It's so easy to follow! I don't even have a TV or a radio in my house and it's easy to follow.

Pitchfork: Anyway, I take it you're not a fan of auto tune.

Case: I'm not a perfect note hitter either but I'm not going to cover it up with auto tune. Everybody uses it, too. I once asked a studio guy in Toronto, "How many people don't use auto tune?" and he said, "You and Nelly Furtado are the only two people who've never used it in here." Even though I'm not into Nelly Furtado, it kind of made me respect her. It's cool that she has some integrity.

Pitchfork: So you're willing to write off the entire Top 40 at this point?

Case: Pretty much.


Nice :)

Pantontino

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Well said Mrs Case. I was hoping that one of the positive things to come out of the freebie download culture (and the subsequent reduction in profits made from cd sales) is that the need for bands to make money from live gigs would weedle out the chancers who can't actually do the deed in a live setting.

Back in my regular gig going days I always looked forward to the touring American bands because, despite the often cheap production on their recorded output, they could really belt the songs out live. Proper singers who could sing (or shout if they were a hardcore band), and properly tight bands who could spin on a sixpence. You only get that sort of thing if bands do what they are supposed to do, i.e. play live and play lots. Henry Rollins famously, and rightly lambasted the lightweight Indie pussies who complained about the touring lifestyle. He should get Neko on his chatshow and let her tell it like it is.

dave

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when you see all those televised dogshite "lame academy" and "crap idol" and all modern commercial pop groups (atomic pussy, busted and all that shite) etc etc the first thing that always struck me was the fact that the majority of them were appauling singers compared to a lot of the people I did A-level music with and music GSCE. I would estimate that maybe 40-50% of the population can sing better than most pop "singers" these days. It does seem to be rare for modern artists to be able to actually sing, ones like lamaaarrrrr and craig david are exceptions that spring to mind. I saw that amy winehouse on the telly at glastonbwa last week and to be honest i thought she was fucking terrible - sounded like vic reeves doing club-singing on Shooting Stars. you must wonder how much of that blinging album sound is down to mark ronseal's production.

Obi-Wan is lost...

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In a kind of linked story, sad to hear Fopp are closing http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6252300.stm  :(

Falling Down

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That's a good interview...  and good for Neko Case for speaking up about it.

Panto - Unfortunately, Autotune actually works in real-time so all the "big" acts use it these days to perform live and it's really shit - at worst it sounds like Chers vocoder but you can hear it all over many live acts these days and not just the ones you might expect.






Bubba

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I wasn't aware of such widespread use tbh and it's pretty depressing how much it can compensate.

Check these samples:

Before

After

I'd rather hear a real voice warts 'n all than something processed in this way. Nasty.

Pantontino

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Oh dear, that is a dismaying piece of information.

On a similar note, I heard some producer bloke (the one who did Nevermind) talking about how he convinced Kurt Cobain to use extra vocal tracks on Teen Spirit to boost the power of the song. Cobain was against it, because it wasn't punk, but gave in when he found out that the Beatles had done something similar. He also mentioned that Queen built their 'big' sound with 'layers' (sorry, don't know the correct techy term). But then Queen had such a rep for their live performances - would they have been using some tricks for this too?

When did this autotune technology arrive on the scene? And who is using it?




dontfollowme

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It is worrying hearing about this autotune. I supposed we would all like to think our favourite bands wouldn't use it. I would like to know who uses it...

SA Chris

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In a kind of linked story, sad to hear Fopp are closing http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6252300.stm  :(

Bugger. Worst news I've heard in a while. How will I fill my lunchtimes?

Obi-Wan is lost...

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He also mentioned that Queen built their 'big' sound with 'layers' (sorry, don't know the correct techy term)
'Double-tracking', I only learnt this the other night whilst watching a good doc on indie-rock. Who says TV never teaches you anything?  ;)

dave

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theres a lot of multiple tracking of freddie mercurys voice on bohemian rhapsody (in the middle operatic section). this is quite understandable though given part of it is an operatic bit and theres only 3 of them that sing, I don't think its ever been a secret. (theres also multitracking done on all the guitars etc, they played the same bits with different amps in different rooms and mixed it down together). I doubt they ever used it when performing live. Not least because when doing bohemian rhapsody live they never included that bit of the song (or they just turned the stage lights off played that section from the recording) because it was impossible to perform live becasue of the multitracking used in the recording.

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Ethics, ethics.
I've always felt people can do what they like in the studio- pitchshift, effects, multitrack etc etc  As long as they are honest about what is used, what does it matter?  Look at Tunular Bells, Passion and Warfare- big sounding albums done by not many people.
I think live is a different kettle of fish.  For an electro-acoustic setup I definitely prefer everything to be unadulterated, "as-is".  WYSIWYG I suppose.  If you can't perform live without having loads of electronic help, don't.  Or at least, don't pretend you can sing.
Elektronika is obviously different.

Falling Down

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Panto - Autotune (real-time pitch correction) has been around for some time and is very widespread.

Multi-tracking of vocals for a "bigger" sound (the Nirvana example) has always been a part of the recording and production process and isn't a bad thing IMHO.  It can be overdone though...

Paz

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I would estimate that maybe 40-50% of the population can sing better than most pop "singers" these days.

But 90% of them you wouldn't care to look at strutting their stuff in a music video.  This Auto Tuner thing explains a lot about the unfeasibly large number of attractive female singers on dance tracks.

If you can do it without then great, it's good that you excel at your craft, but to be honest I actually don't mind it.   It's not bad like CGI or excessive wire work in the cinema, in that it looks either really obvious or too good to be true to my ear anyway.  But keeping it real either with stunts and `fights', or with music has its own priceless cool value. 

At the end of the day if it sounds alright then it sounds alright.  But I've always liked electronic music even
though it's shit live.  It's gone too far when people start using Auto Tuner when playing Kareoke Legends on the PS2 or whatever it was (the singing Guitar Hero thing). 

I think that's the dividing line (with both CGI and AT), when your Pete Waterman esque cynical producers and greedy massive studios just start using it because they're too lazy to do the real deal, and when they start using it to trick you into believing that something's real that obviously isn't.  I know you suspend belief to an extent anyway when you watch a film, especially when you watch sci-fi or animation, but there's good and bad ways of doing this.  Maybe it does just come down to effort level.

Houdini

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Great thread.

Yes AT has been around for a while and I find it dire.  (For example: Rite of Spring where a sloppy and amazing band - could you imagine Guy Picciotto through AT?!  Sheesh...)


For me, a record should be a method of documenting/archiving the work of performing musicians for posterity.  A live show is and always will be where it's at and the best way of experiencing performing musicians. 

Sometimes breaking all the rules is unnecessary (with the exception of Electronica - where it's imperative).

Bubba

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#15 Re: Tell us what you really think, Neko
August 20, 2008, 02:35:46 pm
Revamping a very old topic here - check out this recording of Britney's live mic feed - (use link at top of the page below - can't link video directly)

http://www.reddit.com/comments/6x56d/britney_spears_live_this_is_the_feed_from_her/

 

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