[fatdoc]

BTW me Sheff roadies,

just found a shit load of Assos stuff 30% off in the chesser jejemes shop.

got me that winter top after all! colour co-ordinated to the bike, of course.

how long is that ride from the roaches to sheff?? might be just a bit too fuckin big for me a the mo, esp as i visulise the hill profile 

btw my av speed on runs in the peak is only 16 - 17 mph... will i get dropped on the 1st Km or will you play with me and then kill me on the climb up to the cat and fiddle??

[Dolly]

That sort of average is good FD -you'll be fine.
You're a proper roadie now aren't you ?

[Percy B]

Yeah, I wouldn't get stressed about that sort of average speed - very respectable. Even when I've been doing a bit, its hard to get my average speed much over 20 in the Peak. Between 16 and 18 is a pretty good level, my season average is 17.5 over approx. 2000 miles. Its how long you can sustain that average speed in a session that's the real issue - after 5 or 6 hours it starts to hurt big style!

[fatdoc]

i've only got experience of the peak drags... you know what i mean... and I've never gone over 35 miles...

trying to get a big ride in this weekend though - but not confirmed... hopefully 45 miler. time is an issue. done 500 miles now in 3 months ( probs quite a bit more, didnt get a computer for quite a bit), each week greater distance or greater av speed... life dictates which. still trying to get the the magic 100 miles mid week commuting total and then a ride at the weekend - but i also wanna climb!!

I'm happy at sort of speed  (16 to 17 mph) at HR rate at 150 to 155 (speakin freely) and keep that for 2 hrs no probs at all.... think i may bonk / die after 4 though... my true 30 sec max is 180 to 190 (yes... i can say i retch / fall over and nearly die when i hit 200.)

 I'm setting sights for some sportives nxt spring..  I recon 50 miles not an issue by then.. what do i enter then guys?? all i wanna do is finish in the top half.

the true goal has to be your 1st 100. i've heard doing that out to Hull from sheff is the easiest way, advice guys??

+ got from chesser to home in the big ring for the 1st time today... stoked!!! 32 mins 30.. sweet.  Took me 42 mins 1st time!!!!

god, lyrca feels sooo good

[Falling Down]

then a ride back to Sheffield via

Sounds good to me, I can start at the Roaches End (I'm in Chinley) but I'm not sure about bouldering beforehand.. I always find mixing these things a bit wierd and stressful (on the mind more than the body).

That said, I'm always saying 'Yeah count me in' and I end up working away from home of off doing something else.

>I'm happy at sort of speed  (16 to 17 mph) at HR rate at 150 to 155 (speakin freely) and keep that for 2 hrs no >probs at all.... think i may bonk / die after 4 though... my true 30 sec max is 180 to 190 (yes... i can say i retch / >fall over and nearly die when i hit 200.)

Ditto for me Fatdoc, almost identical stats.  The HR monitor was quite a revelation in terms of pacing myself - I found if I stay below 180 I can push hard uphil for a while and was so elated when I 'flashed' Winnats with no dab.

Off surfing in Ireland for 7 days on Friday so no bike for a while.  One of our aging UK bouldering wads is joining me and bringing his bike and boards but I can't mix the two... I couldn't possibly go for a knackering ride only to find it pumping and offshore that evening.

[chappers]

loving this thread. on that ride i did i was 17.6 mph average, my computer has a pointer to tell me if i am above or below my average which is good on the ride to school each morning for trying to beat my time.

i used to use a HR monitor for running, but i found it of little use, at the min on the bike i just push myself as hard as possible all the time (7 miles to work and have ridden a longer way home in the evenings), since last thursday i have done 98 miles. how can i use my monitor?

and a big question, how can i ride a fast average speed and retain juice in the tank for big climbs? what speed to people ride up steep hills (is that a stupid question??)

[Falling Down]

Chappers - I deliberately didn't buy a computer/speedo/HR monitor for 6 months so I could get a proper feel for riding without being distracted by numbers and other stuff. 

Your last question isn't stupid by any means but as a relative newcomer to road biking myself you've just got to get out there and get a feel for your bike and body if you get my drift.

[webbo]

chappers.with regard to using your h/r rate monitor on the bike.most cyclists  use h/r zones.which work something like this.
z1 long rides 3hrs+ h/r 50/60% of max h/r
z2 longish intervals70/80% i.e 5 mins on 1 off x8
z3 1 min intervals 90% effort
z4 flat out max efforts
this is a rough guide and might not be that accurate,cycling weekly usually produce a training manual every year which gives all this stuff in detail.you might find one in smiths.
another really good training guide is tubo training to win by pete read.its now in its 4or 5th edition.you can adapt the workouts for riding outside.i used this for a couple of years when racing and got some great results.
as for having a fast average speed then being able to have something left for the hills.its the same as 100ft of 6a moves followed by a 6b crux.its
climb,climb,climb or ride your bike,ride your bike,ride your bike.
as fd says the problem with average speeds is that you get obssessed with trying to beat your previous time so every ride is a race.its a common theme when people first start.you will enjoy it more if you ride steadyon the flat, go hard up the hills,coast down the hills and listen to your body as its very easy to batter yourself and end up going slower and slower.
one of the most important things to notice which seems obvious but most people seem to ignore it.is if you can't ride at 25mph for 200 metres how can you expect to ride at this speed for an hour.

[fatdoc]

did a short hill from unstone to appinall last week, said to be steeper than winnats, but but way shorter...

long term goal for me winnats,

might "have a look" soon. mate of mine when fit got to the yellow grit bin (a famous point on the hill), came to a staggering stop, keeled over then hyperventilated into vomiting... he was well fit then as well. thank god i've got a compact chain set!!

i'm a bit in awe of winnats as a result

as fd says the problem with average speeds is that you get obssessed with trying to beat your previous time so every ride is a race.its a common theme when people first start.you will enjoy it more if you ride steadyon the flat, go hard up the hills,coast down the hills and listen to your body as its very easy to batter yourself and end up going slower and slower.

 

 

 


guess who just did his slowest ride to work of 8 weeks today??? i think i need to have a few slow longer rides, to break out of the *race to work cycle*. good advice that, thanks.

BTW, this thread is more useful than any roadie forum i've come accross!!

ta!

[webbo]

although i spouted above about not always trying to beat you previous times.i did manage to knock about 10 mins off my regular evening cicuit of about 11/2 hours last night.this was helped by the number of those super tractors on the road last night.i find its great for your speed jumping in their slipstream as they come past at 25mph.got h/r of 188 on the flat.

[chappers]

right, im off out on a ride tonight after school so i will take advice and try and build it up, ill switch the average speed off my computer and just enjoy!

in other news i just had to ref year 8 football having never ever played the game or indeed watched it. steep learning curve that!

[webbo]

re hills fatdoc.i know you've alot of experience in coming down them fast but there is quite alot of technique in how you ride them.i.e.its not of a case "of oeer that looks long and steep so i'll put it in my smallest gear"sometimes its about standing up and powering.at other times you may want to just sit down and rev. a mistake when i first started was to hit a hill in certain gear get out of breath,change down get more out of breath and sort of repeat this process till i collapsed.also alot of people charge at them trying to get it over with quickly.think of hills like sex take your time and saviour the experience.

[fatdoc]

thanks,

got a big (for me) ride planned for sunday, now the missus isnt doing the clumber 10km i've found the time..

i'll defo try to the more steady approach to hills, has to be said a base level of fitness is needed to try to climb hills in the way you explain, i recon i've only got fit enough to be able to consider my actual climbing technique in the last few weeks.. i need to stop trying to belt up everything i can in the highest gear i can grind for sure...

[webbo]

however all this about taking it steady all falls by the way side if you go out with some mates.then its every man or woman for themselves once the road goes up.
i have a mate who as a young man was a class act i.e. represented great britain,he would delight in riding up a hill in front mooning the rest of us as we grovelled up.we ganged up on him one time knocked him off his bike into a ditch and removed his shorts.he then had to ride home with his jersey covering his nether regions for 10 miles. 

[Yossarian]

i would happily make the journey up north for a days biking, but judging by my utter exhaustion after yesterday's mountain biking adventure in wales i think i might need to put in some more training first. i started this year brilliantly, but the last 3 or 4 months have been a pretty unhealthy combination of too much good living and evenings spent inside writing about middle eastern terrorists and gay navy seals, rather than being out on the road.

i did a couple of lab trials earlier this year, and as such got a lot of free testing. whilst i wouldn't suggest that anyone starting out should jump in at the deep end, it did become quite clear to me and the lab guys that i was wasting my time doing a lot of junk miles.  i was doing about 150 - 170 miles a week in january - long rides at the weekend, and mid week rides with lights. i think a long ride now and again is worthwhile, especially if you want to do sportifs. however, the way to get fast seems to be to really go and hurt yourself for 2 hours, or maybe 3. the month where i had the greatest improvement was when i was going out with a road race team. they showed no mercy and were all stick-armed freaks, and i usually got dropped after an hour or two. but until then i found myself pushing myself far harder than i usually would on a solo ride...

[webbo]

i read a couple of diaries from 2000/2001.when i was racing nearly every weekend and it was intervals and intervals with the odd 5/6 hour ride thrown in if i had a day off mid week.it was exhausting reading it now never mind doing it.

[Yossarian]

i guess that's what those rides were like. the rest of them were probably treating it like a level 2/3 ride.  for me, every hill was a hardcore interval, going into the 180s every time just to hang on. it's funny how pride can be such a driving force.

as an aside, i tried one of those caffeine energy gels yesterday. after riding up a bloody awful hill on our second lap (on a fucking heavy stinky primo) i had the most awful cold sweat and near passing out experience.  the gel thingy did a pretty good job of keeping me alive on the way down, because in my experience delirium and big rock steps don't really mix.

[Percy B]

Oh yes, pride is a great motivator, but also a dangerous thing. The first 10 mile TT I did when I was 16 involved riding for 12 miles to get to the start. Being young and stupid, I rode out to the start with two lads from the Southborough road club who were way fitter than me, so by the time I got to the start I was destroyed and recorded my slowest 10 ever, and all because I kept up with the others on the ride to the start. By the time I rode home again I bonked so badly my mum had to come and pick me up from the hedge I had collapsed in at the top of Sevenoaks hill.

As for learning how to climb hills on a bike, a few training sessions in the Peak, coupled with a week in the Alps straightened me out a little as to what worked for me. Alpine cols - a totally mind blowing experience to ride up (and down!) are highly recommended for learning how to monitor what your body is doing and managing your effort so you can keep going.

Dr Bishton recommends a week in Annot - ride up and down the Col St Martin first thing in the morning (the climb starts gently straight from the camp site, and then continues up for 20 Kms or so, gradient is a fairly steady between 5-12%, then a very spicey descent), then enjoy pristine sandstone bouldering in the afternoon. A week of this will sort your climbing technique out - rock climbing and climbing hills on a bike. There's very good mountain biking too, so they tell me...

[Yossarian]

the thing i find, especially after mountain biking, is how easy it is to control effort when climbing on a road bike compared to off road. i think with a bit of practise you get a really very accurate idea of what you can sustain (assuming you're not having a bad day), and if you ride with stronger riders from time to time then you're certainly going to find out how much is too much.  if you use a power meter then you can be even more scientific about it. 

the trouble off road is that things are often out of your control. there might be a section where you have to give it everything to get over it, or a rocky section where you lose momentum, or this or that, and as such i find my heartrate fluctuating wildly when on a mountain bike in comparison.

i am quite concerned that it is nearly turbo trainer time again. i wonder if in years to come that particular instrument of torture might go the way of bear baiting and corporal punishment and get banned. i think i might try illuminated mountain biking as an alternative.

[Percy B]

Aye. The thought of hours sweating on the turbo trainer fills me with dread. Even the drive to Manchester to the velodrome is preferable to an evening in the garage expending vast ammounts of energy on going nowhere. It is possible to spice things up by riding on rollers in a very small cellar space, but this normally ends in tears and serious injury in my limited experience....!

[Falling Down]

long term goal for me winnats,

I was terrified by the prospect, particularly as I'd already done the Cat'n Fiddle and various White Peak climbs already that day.

The motivator for me was having another cyclist (who had overtaken me with a snooty 'hello' on the flat outside of Hope) collapse in front me by the grit bin and start puking on his shoes.  Closer to the top when the black spots at the edges of my eyes were threatening to overwhelm my vision, a car load of girls with MTB's on the roof drove past and leaned out of the windows cheering and clapping like I was one of the hill climbing greats of yore - my ego soared, I managed to dig deep and even flashed a smile to the chicks in the motor though I probably looked like I was having a seizure.

I have a compact BTW...

[webbo]

i am quite concerned that it is nearly turbo trainer time again. i wonder if in years to come that particular instrument of torture might go the way of bear baiting and corporal punishment and get banned. i think i might try illuminated mountain biking as an alternative.

although i'm a big fan of turbo training as its the best way to get strong and fast.its got to be the most mind numbing,painful experience known to man kind.i find it really hard to warm down after a session cos i'm so desperate to get off the bloody thing.

[fatdoc]

christ,

we're gonna need bubba to start a separate forum at this rate

boulderingroadies.com

this thread is superb.

my sunday ride is with one uber fit extreme event runner, and a mate from work. i'm thus in the middle, best plac to be i reckon!

you tell i'm getting serious, i dont intend to drink the night before


how do you train on a turbo trainer BTW?

i have yet to have the need, but although my cozy color co-odrinated assos winter jersey is all soft and nuggly i dont intend to get piss wet through by commuting to work regularly through the winter... seems a purchase will then be in order...

i'm shitting it about winnats now, gonna leave it for a bit i reckon

[fatdoc]

i guess that's what those rides were like. the rest of them were probably treating it like a level 2/3 ride.  for me, every hill was a hardcore interval, going into the 180s every time just to hang on. it's funny how pride can be such a driving force.

as an aside, i tried one of those caffeine energy gels yesterday. after riding up a bloody awful hill on our second lap (on a fucking heavy stinky primo) i had the most awful cold sweat and near passing out experience.  the gel thingy did a pretty good job of keeping me alive on the way down, because in my experience delirium and big rock steps don't really mix.

good effort, that's heavier than my DH rig!

where were you mate?

[Yossarian]

i am quite concerned that it is nearly turbo trainer time again. i wonder if in years to come that particular instrument of torture might go the way of bear baiting and corporal punishment and get banned. i think i might try illuminated mountain biking as an alternative.

although i'm a big fan of turbo training as its the best way to get strong and fast.its got to be the most mind numbing,painful experience known to man kind.i find it really hard to warm down after a session cos i'm so desperate to get off the bloody thing.

have you ridden an srm ergo? if a turbo trainer is like being beaten with an iron bar for 40 minutes, then the SRM is like organ removal without anaesthetic.  Once the power level is set it won't let you drop below it.  If your legs slow then the resistance increases.  And doing a max test on it is unspeakably awful...