[Bonjoy]

 Had a brief play on this yesterday. It seemed pretty hard. Reasonable footholds but next to nothing for fingers and sufficiently steep to push you off as you try to move up and left along the footholds. Does anyone know how it climbs or indeed if it has had any ascents other than the semi-rumoured FA by the man himself?

[Johnny Brown]

I have a vague memory of doing it years back on my first visit. Either something has broken off very cleanly or I remember wrong. On more recent visits I've not been convinced it can be climbed.

[Somebody's Fool]

I'm fairly sure that Justin did during a brief hiatus from mis-spending his youth.  I could be wrong, although I suspect if anyone has done it it would be him.

It did look fairly impossible as the far from weak Bonjoy/Banks team floundered yesterday.  Did they bag Who Needs Ready Brek I wonder?

[Ru]

I did it when researching the guide. I can't remember much, but I rocked onto a high right foot smear I think to gain an edge with my left hand quike high up, then used this to rock higher and rightwards. I think. Hard.

[Ru]

Actually, I think I did it before I did the guide, remember that the high edge was very thin with like a wafery lippy bit that your skin snagged on - this could easily have come off or crumbled slightly and I doubt you could tell, but would make a massive difference.

[Bonjoy]

The tiny edge was v tiny and unusable in the searing heat of the mid winter sun. Do you rock onto the vague smeary edge used as a footer on Finger of Fate? If so it would explain where we were going wrong. We were trying to go left to a thin crack rather than more direct to the ledge on FOF.

SF - Got to second crimp on WNRB, but is was far to hot to pull on those crimps! Reckon I might stand a good chance on a cold day.

[AndiT]

I've not done it, but was always under the impression that it was bit of a jump from the smears to get the higher hold up and right. Apparently Simon just kept lunging and flying off down the hill (no doubt missing his beer towel by a mile) and then getting back on it. It's meant to be quite a swing when you catch it. That's what I heard, anyway

[Ru]

I definitely moved rightwards. It may have been a pop for the hold I can't remember. It was cold when I did it and I remember boning down on the crimp very hard. Can't remember the feet very well.

[Bonjoy]

Tah, it's all starting to make sense now. I'll know what to try next time.

[Paul B]

SF - Got to second crimp on WNRB, but is was far to hot to pull on those crimps! Reckon I might stand a good chance on a cold day.

that line looks awesome!

[Bonjoy]

You'd love it yoot.
Surely with that avatar you should have "Loves the crimps you hate" as signature!

[Johnny Brown]

Had yet another fruitless (not even any apples) session on this today.

With the info in the new guide, it seems like there are two lines here. Be good to get it sorted for the new guide.

1. From up the slope to the left, lean in to a high hold that isn't as good as it looks. Swing on, then adjust hands and snatch for the base of the crack. As described in '09 Staffs guide, given V9. Good project sit/ non reach start.

2. Climb the slab anywhere that's possible, without using the right arete. Only known ascent by Ru, given 7b+, in bouldering guide at 7b+. Now impossible?

Any other input? I'm guessing Ru's line was pretty near the right arete, ie the two lines would seem not to share any holds.

[BenF]

Me and Dolph looked at this on Saturday.  Had the same dilemma regarding lines that you had and came to the same conclusions you outlined.  I quickly went to do something else whilst Dolph searched for fruit but similarly came up with none like you, although he nearly got up it from the lean in/reach start from the left.  Personally I felt the left hand start was a bit of a non-line (not helped by its rather morpho start) whilst the direct up the slab line was simply holdless, but a better line. 

[Johnny Brown]

Personally I felt the left hand start was a bit of a non-line (not helped by its rather morpho start) whilst the direct up the slab line was simply holdless, but a better line.

Exactly. Amazed to hear Dolph didn't get up the left-hand line though.

[Ru]

From what little I remember, I think I started from the top of the slope on the left side and reached a thin crimp with my right, although you end up with it with your left. I didn't climb the wall just left of the right arete. The description in my guide "climb the centre of the slab" is a bit misleading in retrospect. The line in the new guide is a better illustration, but I seem to remember 2-3 hard smearing moves before I got the crimp, but I may be misremembering. I really need to go back to better remember.

What i do remember is that the problem seemed to boil down to pulling very hard on a painful thin crimp, had an awkward fall and wasn't much fun.

[grimer]

I emailed Simon about this but he got back too late to put his info in the guide. I will fish out the email and post it up in a bit - I'm just off to the dentist now. Wish me luck!

[slackline]

I emailed Simon about this but he got back too late to put his info in the guide. I will fish out the email and post it up in a bit - I'm just off to the dentist now. Wish me luck!

Good luck, say hello to Dobbin

[BenF]

Amazed to hear Dolph didn't get up the left-hand line though.

To be fair, I wouldn't take it as a measure of his ability or the difficulty of the moves as Mick was utterly knackered after six days of climbing on the trot.

[grimer]

From Simon Nadin:

"Left Hand Finger of Fate- desciption is pretty good but just to clarify. It doesnt start at the base of the left arete but slightly higher up the grassy slope. From this position it is possible to stretch out right for the only poor hold on the arete/face. Swing onto this - not too much swing as this usually ends up cartwheeling down the bank-  and continue diagonally rightwards on improving holds to reach Finger of Fate. Finish as for this. Quite hard i think."

[Johnny Brown]

Cheers Grimer, that's pretty much what is in the new guide and makes sense.

The description in my guide "climb the centre of the slab" is a bit misleading in retrospect.

Mild understatement! You owe me about eight hours of my life back!

I think I started from the top of the slope on the left side and reached a thin crimp with my right, although you end up with it with your left.

This is the same as Nadin.

but I seem to remember 2-3 hard smearing moves before I got the crimp

This isn't, and makes you the best slab climber in The Peak. Impressive.

[Ru]

Mild understatement! You owe me about eight hours of my life back!

Apologies. Although you do climb the centre of the slab, you just start on the left. A bad description though.

I think I started from the top of the slope on the left side and reached a thin crimp with my right, although you end up with it with your left.

but I seem to remember 2-3 hard smearing moves before I got the crimp

This isn't, and makes you the best slab climber in The Peak. Impressive.
[/quote]

I'm in danger of talking about something that I can't remember clearly. I made some foot movements that I slipped off a few times. I don't know if this was once I'd got the crimp or before. I had thought that I'd pulled on and moved my feet into position before getting the crimp, more shuffling my feet than actual moves, but I might be mistaken. I didn't climb up the lower slab where there are no holds.

[Johnny Brown]

I think/ hope you were mistaken, otherwise you are still going to have to give me some slab climbing lessons! The crimp is poor, as are the footholds. Once you get on there is a fair bit of tricky smearing just to fiddle your left hand on to the good bit, then a lunge up to the crack.

[Bonjoy]

Good to hear this mystery is solved. Ru - you owe me a similar number of hours.

[Ru]

I've just spent about an hour digging through an old box full of papers and dug out some old topos and notes from when I did the guide - I've got NSF climbing the slab direct and a note saying "from L, still 7b+". So I presume that when I wrote the guide I thought that Simon's original method went up the middle. I also found some sequence notes on the Nth Cloud projects. Anyone tried these?

[Bonjoy]

I vote that if anyone ever manages the slab line it be called Rupert's Secret Sandbag.

[grimer]

I went over there with Ben Moon and got him to try one at least, the best looking one on the left and found it very hard. He got pushed on to the easier looking top out and couldn'y do that either.

Andi T got close to the one right of the chimley, up the seam.

Blows me away that no one with the ability ever bothers to go and do the FA of top quality problems.

Also, if anyone is interested, which the above would suggest they're not, if you drive past Nth cloud, up the hill to a parking spot just before the kettle grid, you can see a boulder on the hillside. This one's a whole hundred metres from the road, but if anyone ever did manage the walk, there's a hard sit start line on this too, on the right side of the face facing the road.

[Ru]

It was only the rh one that I made any headway on. Will check out the lone boulder.

[dave k]

"Blows me away that no one with the ability ever bothers to go and do the FA of top quality problems"

I imagine its because not many people know they are out there. There is a tendency for decent local projects to be kept out of the guide books (although they are mentioned in the Roaches guide)

Was this the reason why they were not mentioned in your guide Rupert?

I am sure that they would have seen alot more atttention from those with the ability, if 2  8a(or harder) projects had been mentioned in a bouldering guide.

[Tim Broughtonshaw]

heard a couple of mentions of a new guide? whose guide is this and whens it due?   

[cofe]

We'll (Vertebrate) hopefully have a new one out in the spring. Never heard of these projects before.

[SA Chris]

Since when were you classed as a Vertebrate?

[Ru]

Whilst there is an argument for recording bouldering that has already been done, I think there is less of one for listing things that haven't. Where do you draw the line? Do I list only well known projects, do I list my entire little black book of possibilities that I have noted over the years, do I point out every gap on every boulder?

The commoditisation of projects that would result from putting them in a guide, essentially making a classic FA available to the highest bidder (performance wise) makes me feel uneasy. I think there should be more to doing FAs than flicking though a book then trying them. There's little enough scope for doing off the beaten track bouldering in this country without documenting projects.

[dave k]

I dont disagree. From a selfish point of view i would certainly not have had any first ascents had they been included in a guide book.

However there are some classic projects (like the groove/crease at the Nth Cloud) which i for one would love a V15 super kid to make short work of.

I did find your (ru`s) description of the Nth cloud rather funny at the time. I cant remember it exactly - but the gist of it was that is a decent arete to climb and not much else. Where as the reality is that there are more projects (3), than problems (2) 

Given that the Roaches guide (which most foreign boulderers wouldn't buy) mentioned the world class projects, it did seem a bit protectionist not to mention them in your guide. Maybe you could consider a hint that they exist in the next edition or new guide (rumours have it you are involved in the new Peak guide- are you?)

[slackline]

Maybe you could consider a hint that they exist in the next edition or new guide

Something like

"There's still lots of problems out there for those with a sense of adventure and the vision to unlock them" 

[dave k]

Is that a quote from the Nth Cloud section of the guide?

[Fiend]

They're in the bloody BMC guide, which is brilliant, what more do people need??? 

[Bonjoy]

Where as the reality is that there are more projects (3), than problems (2) 

Crystal Voyager is possibly the best boulder prob there and bumps it up to three of each.

[cofe]

Since there seems to be a demand for documenting things that don't exist, I propose Hepstow Brow and Burbage East are incuded in all future guides.

[dave]

get si o'conor on the vertibrate payroll.

[slackline]

Is that a quote from the Nth Cloud section of the guide?

No its my crap attempt at wit. 

[Ru]

Where as the reality is that there are more projects (3), than problems (2) 

Crystal Voyager is possibly the best boulder prob there and bumps it up to three of each.

When I did the last guide I considered Crystal Voyager too high to be a boulder problem - i.e. I consciously left it out. Conceptions of "too high" are changing though, and it could go in the next one.

[AndiT]

Also, if anyone is interested, which the above would suggest they're not, if you drive past Nth cloud, up the hill to a parking spot just before the kettle grid, you can see a boulder on the hillside. This one's a whole hundred metres from the road, but if anyone ever did manage the walk, there's a hard sit start line on this too, on the right side of the face facing the road.

Still haven't found this despite you tellling me 6 months ago and me walking kids over the entire area for around 4 hours per week since then. So that's around 96 hours of my worklife you owe me now....err, actually you can keep it 

I think you need to show me.

Nth cloud projects. It'd be great to see them done, they seem really hard.

[grimer]

I'll take you there. I've just looked on google earth and i think it's the one on the left of the path to the skyline, after 100 metres (i walked directly up to it from the road below). It's not a 3 star classic or anything, but...

[Johnny Brown]

When I did the last guide I considered Crystal Voyager too high to be a boulder problem - i.e. I consciously left it out. Conceptions of "too high" are changing though, and it could go in the next one.

I'd say its rather too small to be a route... a few of us highballed it last year - very good, cunning moves, and not too high. I don't think it had been bouldered when the guide was done though, so I don't blame you for not putting it in.

As for publicising projects, I don't think there's any need. They may turn out to be crap. These two are pretty well known anyway - only new to Cofe apparently. For some reason staffs generally seems to be off the radar of some folk though. More fool them.

[cofe]

Shows what I know. Looks like even incredibly beautiful people like me can't know everything all of the time.

[AndiT]

I'll take you there. I've just looked on google earth and i think it's the one on the left of the path to the skyline, after 100 metres (i walked directly up to it from the road below). It's not a 3 star classic or anything, but...

Cool, I've undoubtedly 'seen' it before, but it's a matter of 'vision' no doubt 

There's quite a lot on those boulders all over that field, but they're generally not publicised for rock quality and tranquility reasons, doesn't mean they're not worth a look on a windy day though.

Crystal Voyager is mint, the next step up from the Cube in my list of great micro-routes. As for being off the radar, that's fine by me 

[Caesar Power]

There's quite a lot on those boulders all over that field, but they're generally not publicised for rock quality and tranquility reasons

yeah, there's loads on undocumented boulders on the roaches estate, but thats usually due to access restrictions, or it's a bit naff. Here's some:
Past the very far skyline boulders, but they're a bit crumbly and a bit banned (BMC request)
Between Roach End and Nth Cloud, and Nth Cloud and 5th cloud - but thought there was access issues.
The far left side of Nth cloud - some dangerous landings!
Roaches lower tier (far left). Some good stuff + 2 excellent slab problems. Unsure of access due to erosion control...

[carlisle slapper]

Ruperts secret sandbang project defo goes,

assuming i've read thing right, i managed to do all of the hard bit and got my RH on that good crimpy break when my LF foot popped and i sacked it off thinking i'd had quite enough goes at that particular 7b+!

I started just left of finger of fate, and walked leftwards along the ramp (balancy), thumb pressed a faint groove and crimped a pebble to turn the press into an awkward sidepull, then stretched out left to some cracked small crimpy sidepull, then there was a really smeary LF move as the ramp runs out to get RH to the good hold. This was 3 years ago with Rob and i was more of a punt back then. But there's your vague beta anyway.

Haven't been to n'ths but will put it on my to visit list.