[Blunk]

What level of finger strength must one have in order to succeed on 7c+/V10?

Comfortably one-hand dead hang on a 3/4 inch edge?

Yes I know it all depends on the problem, type of climbing, etc, but there has to be some benchmark power separating V10 climbers from the rest of us. What is it?

My hardest problems have been V9's. I can do pullups on 1/4 inch edges, but cannot one-arm hang anything smaller than 1-1/2 inches wide.

Your input please, especially the V10 crew.

[Doylo]

I would say if you have climbed a few V9s there must be a V10 somewhere out there with your name on it. You can't really judge a grade increase by how long you can dead hang etc.. cos theres loads of other factors involved. If its a non crimpy V10 your after though look no further than Lou Ferrino, in the cave of justice 

[SA Chris]

If you lived in Colorado, would you bother wit the cave of justice?

Must be a soft V10 up in the RMNP Blunk, somthing up your street? Or is it all buried already?

[Doylo]

ha ha , lucky bugger, didn't realise. What you can't climb V10 in colorado 

[unclesomebody]

Why don't you just climb a v10 slab. They don't require any one arm deadhangs. All you need to do is stand on your toes. This suggestion has come from the school of technique (to which I have an annual subscribtion).

[SA Chris]

the school of technique (to which I have an annual subscribtion).

Which reminds me, your school fees are due.

Signed

The Headmaster.

[M.U.L.E]

Please enlighten me uncle, what else do they "suggest" at the "school of technique"?

[unclesomebody]

From this months issue. I hope I don't busted for plagiarism;

[M.U.L.E]

Thank you very much, it seems my heels have been higher than my toes hence not exerting maximum force on the marginal footholds but thanks to you you technical wad i am now a slab monster.
I cant wait until next month's issue! What will you be writing about next month?

[SA Chris]

tut tut. Baggy trousers, schoolboy error. whole foot must be clearly visible at all times.

[unclesomebody]

tut tut. Baggy trousers, schoolboy error. whole foot must be clearly visible at all times.

Come back when you've climbed a v10 slab.   

[Nibile]

i used to think slabs are never more than 7a.

[SA Chris]

tut tut. Baggy trousers, schoolboy error. whole foot must be clearly visible at all times.

Come back when you've climbed a v10 slab.   

Those who can climb v10 climb it, those who can't climb teach it

Write that out 100 times.

[Ballsofcottonwool]

Which V10 slab is that photo of?

[Jim]

probably a v2 slab.
Uncle: how do you manage to climb all these hard slabs in V10's?

[Nibile]

are we talking about climbing V10 slabs or just slabs in V10s?

[Jim]

I recon either way its gonna be v10

[dave]

this has gotta be one of the daftest threads going.

to climb 7c+ you need to be stronger than is required to climb 7c, but not strong enough to climb 8a. If you're already not strong enough to climb 8a then you're half way there.

[Blunk]

Thanks for that remarkably enlightening discussion.

Surely someone has something useful to contribute?

[dave]

sorry if that sounded flipant but it was meant to. fingerstrength is just one factor for sucess, and the amount required will vary depending on the type of problem. there are 7as that require greater fingerstrength than some 8as. asking how strong your fingers have to be to climb a v10 is about as meaningful a question as asking how far you need to be able to hit a tennis ball to win wimbledon. Its a gross oversimplification of the situation to the extent of being almost completely irrelevent, and no answer anyone could give you (wether its the answer you want to hear or not) would have any real meaning or useful application.

If however you've got a specific V10 in mind, then someone whos done that particular problem may be able to shed some insight. possibly.

sorry if this isn't what you want to hear, but otherwise it'll all get a bit rocktalk, with threads like "how dangerous does a route have to be to get E9", or "if i can toprope F6b indoors can i lead E2?"

[John Gillott]

I can do pullups on 1/4 inch edges, but cannot one-arm hang anything smaller than 1-1/2 inches wide.

I read an article by Dave Macleod that that detailed some research he'd done on the relationship between finger strength and max Sport grade. The strength test was a contraption that measured the max load that could be held by one arm using a one inch edge (ie similar to one armed deadhanging taking off or adding some weight as required). He found a very strong correlation among fairly advanced climbers. So clearly, you're onto something... although I suppose there might be more scope for variation on short boulder problems of varying styles.

Am I reading you right that you can't do one on a one inch hold? If I am I must be either technically useless, or freakishly good at deadhanging but weak in some other unidentified area because I'm nowhere near V9 but can do a one armed deadhang for around 8 seconds on a one inch hold.

Is your shoulder failing on the one armer in some way - is that a weakness rather than the fingers?

[fatdoc]

during my rather enforced dead hang / fingerboard / very easy campus focused training that i am now doing (cant climb while ankle ligamants try to heal) i've re evaluated my weaknesses...

i have never dead hanged anything more than a jug on one arm, ever. I've never bouldered V9, in years gone by never redpointed more than 8a+, onsight 7c (once or twice).. at that time could'nt do a 1 arm lock off, cant now either. Can do 1-4-6 max at the mo, interestingly on small and big rungs! best ever would be 1-3-6 in comfort and 1-5-7 once or twice.

I have climbed most of my life, and in periods of non climbing been doing easy high reps weights for my shoulders and a ton or severe anaerobic and aerobic work. I'm a total beginner at pilates - but it does help my core so I persevere...

So, apart from getting the hours in on my beloved moon board - currently 4 reps most of the holds with 2 arm hangs on the crippers of 6 secs max - what do you powerful chappies recomend?? I can obviously move over rock efficently; but to make a break away off my plateau is there anything else i should consider?

 Looking back i've always been one of those climbers who's been weaker than my contemparies - but got the routes / problems done.... now i'm keen to get to and enter the v9 realm something has to change, but what exactly??
I wanna do short sport routes in the summer and hopefully the font7b+ / 7cs that have blighted my psyche both on peak grit and lime in the summer....

[Jim]

I would say if you have climbed a few V9s there must be a V10 somewhere out there with your name on it. You can't really judge a grade increase by how long you can dead hang etc.. cos theres loads of other factors involved. If its a non crimpy V10 your after though look no further than Lou Ferrino, in the cave of justice 

this is the most useful answer here. keep searching, its out there somewhere

[M.U.L.E]

Finger strength is so important and you need to decrease the size of the edge your using to improve if dead hanging. Motivation is a huge factor, the more motivated you are the more you want to improve and the easier it is to train. So keep doing what your doing and slowly increase the volume and difficulty and get in your own little world and train like a monster.

[Houdini]

We've got all the answers you need Blunk, but we're not telling till you start an OLD SKOOL photo's thread, full of pic's like the big one you posted before of you on the boulder problem that's on the cover of a US guidebook (you know the one).

You scored high marks for both Hair and Attire (Frau Houdini found your socks most arresting!).

I can't believe you haven't started an OLD SKOOL photo's thread yet Blunk...

[Blunk]

but we're not telling till you start an OLD SKOOL photo's thread

Alright, alright, I'll see what I can find.  I suppose I'll have to find revealing clingy lycra shots to satisfy Doylo...

fingerstrength is just one factor for sucess, and the amount required will vary depending on the type of problem. there are 7as that require greater fingerstrength than some 8as...Its a gross oversimplification of the situation to the extent of being almost completely irrelevent, and no answer anyone could give you (wether its the answer you want to hear or not) would have any real meaning or useful application.

And Dave, I agree with your observations to a point. But like fatdoc I am pathetically weak compared to most other climbers at my grade level. This is mostly due to my height and weight, weighing 225 is a huge handicap despite having a big reach advantage. Also like fatdoc I have managed quite well over the years, doing many problems of various types and difficulties, making up for lack of strength by all sorts of skullduggery.

What I am looking for is a target. One that stronger people than me generally agree is valid, a benchmark level of power that is likely to be sufficient to get me up a V10.  (And hopefully I won't blow something out trying to achieve it!) Two examples: Moon, Nicole et al can easily crank one-arm pullups on half inch edges. That seems to be sufficent for 8B and harder. Yes I know they are superb at virtually every other aspect of climbing, but can you imagine they could do these problems without that level of strength? I cannot.

And second, a friend and I once did a 5.12 route that had one crux move, a crank off a 3/8 inch hold. We both did it easily and both commented that if you had the strength it was straightforward, without that strength it would have been impossible.

Thanks.

[Houdini]

225 Lb = over 16 stone.

(You are 7 1/2 stone heavier than me.)



I think you already have the power to do V10 but you are just too heavy.

Get lean.  Run, skip, jump, sauna, cut the meal size and any booze a bit (with Xmas on your back, ha!).


Then find a V10 (in good conditions) that completely suits your style, and live under it for a bit.

[chris]

dont worry about weight - look at quentin fisher, he is/was a big bloke but could still beadst out the v10s. Mule is right - its all about staying motivated, either with a problem or training wise. you will crack one its just a matter of time, so persevere!

[SA Chris]

What I am looking for is a target. One that stronger people than me generally agree is valid, a benchmark level of power that is likely to be sufficient to get me up a V10.  (And hopefully I won't blow something out trying to achieve it!) Two examples: Moon, Nicole et al can easily crank one-arm pullups on half inch edges. That seems to be sufficent for 8B and harder. Yes I know they are superb at virtually every other aspect of climbing, but can you imagine they could do these problems without that level of strength? I cannot.

I predict a diet, I predict a diet. How tall are you Blunk?

I managed to shift a stone (16 UK pounds) without and major lifestyle changes and I was amazed what a difference it made to my pulling power.

[fatdoc]

bollox , i know there is sense here... but i'm not called fatdoc for nought you know!!

[SA Chris]

Sorry fatdoc, which bit is bollox and why?

[Nibile]

i think one very important thing is also being able to decipher every single aspect on every move on the problem, when being at/over your limit.
knowing exactly, by the inch if possible, where your body has to be, and where and how grab every hold. and being able, try after try, to save a little bit more on every move, to take out even half a kg pressure from the fingers.
in brief, to get to a percentage of error/improvement close to zero. then its just power.

[Doylo]

I managed to shift a stone (16 UK pounds) without and major lifestyle changes and I was amazed what a difference it made to my pulling power.

Your not wrong, i shifted a stone last year and was floating up stuff, put it back on now though

[fatdoc]

Sorry fatdoc, which bit is bollox and why?

me being bollox, and me in reality knowing the slightly extra mass one can use to advantage (or get away with at least) in DH MTB will not be tolerated by gravity when trying to achieve personal goals in bouldering. i'm  not thinkin stick thin mad bulimia here.... just less fat around the midriff sort of stuff....

[Blunk]

I predict a diet, I predict a diet. How tall are you Blunk?

I managed to shift a stone (16 UK pounds) without and major lifestyle changes and I was amazed what a difference it made to my pulling power.

I am 6' 7".  225 lbs is only 5 lbs heavier than my weight when I was climbing my best problems. I have the frame of a bricklayer rather than a modern climber. I am dieting, trying to get down to 215 for the winter.

i think one very important thing is also being able to decipher every single aspect on every move on the problem, when being at/over your limit.
knowing exactly, by the inch if possible, where your body has to be, and where and how grab every hold. and being able, try after try, to save a little bit more on every move, to take out even half a kg pressure from the fingers.
in brief, to get to a percentage of error/improvement close to zero. then its just power.

Words to live by Nibile!

[a dense loner]

good god blunk, do you double as something cowboys ride on at rodeo's? not meant in the way that doylo is now thinking. i think you need to play to your strengths, please tell me these are open-handing and pinching stuff? the vast majority of people on here have to run around in the shower to get wet, so listening to them beat out the same old tune is rather pointless for you. not dissin the tune btw it's bloody good if you're in a certain weight/price bracket, n i would normally advise said tune but like the great arnold once said "if you've got weedy legs you wouldn't ask tom platz for training advice", not verbatim that. if the area where you live is a certain style ie crimping or roofs with small holds then i would suspect you're going to have a lot harder time than most. then it all depends what you consider to be a proper 7c+.
did i read that you can one-arm deadhang off a 1 1/2" hold? if so at 225 lbs that's impressive. i would need to strap paul b, ru, stu, n doyle at his fighting weight, onto my back to begin to approach that. jim would need to diet

[ferret]

blunk

try mirror mask at evans went the snow clears, steep big moves big holds. given v11 tho easy v10

hav fun

[irish si]

ferret

this is easy if you are short, like roofs, have massive biceps, are burley as fuck and climb V12.  Otherwise I thought it was tricky.

[irish si]

the problem for you blunk has to be fleshfest at the flatirions??  Techy arete, high, oldskool, a little soft ive heard..  Drop me a pm and i will go do it with you.  keep meaning to go up there.

or have you tried black ice??

[saltbeef]

the problem for you blunk has to be fleshfest at the flatirions??  Techy arete, high, oldskool, a little soft ive heard..  Drop me a pm and i will go do it with you.  keep meaning to go up there.

or have you tried black ice??

you can tell what si's thinking... now, there's some old skool high arete i'd like to do. i could take jackie and tyler to spot... shit thats no good, if only jim or some 16stone monster lived round here...
merry christmas si!

[Blunk]

good god blunk, do you double as something cowboys ride on at rodeo's? not meant in the way that doylo is now thinking. i think you need to play to your strengths, please tell me these are open-handing and pinching stuff? the vast majority of people on here have to run around in the shower to get wet, so listening to them beat out the same old tune is rather pointless for you. not dissin the tune btw it's bloody good if you're in a certain weight/price bracket, n i would normally advise said tune but like the great arnold once said "if you've got weedy legs you wouldn't ask tom platz for training advice", not verbatim that. if the area where you live is a certain style ie crimping or roofs with small holds then i would suspect you're going to have a lot harder time than most. then it all depends what you consider to be a proper 7c+.
did i read that you can one-arm deadhang off a 1 1/2" hold? if so at 225 lbs that's impressive. i would need to strap paul b, ru, stu, n doyle at his fighting weight, onto my back to begin to approach that. jim would need to diet

I eat the creatures cowboys ride. Once in my previous job as a rancher I had to choke down a crazed cow bare handed. Judo-style arm bar across the neck while she dragged me across a field. I am serious. Not my most intelligent moment...

My strength is crimping, believe it or not. I'm best on about 10-15 degrees overhanging, not good on roofs or heel-hoooky things. I can manage pretty well on slopers if I have enough sessions to figure out the sweet spots and body tension necesary.

Yes, I can dead hang 1 1/2 inch holds. Most girls can too.

My ideal V10 would be slightly to moderately overhanging, big moves, smallish holds. irish si has a good suggestion in Fleshfest, I will take you up on that si. I will be happy to spot you, but I doubt you'll be happy to spot me! 

[a dense loner]

Once in my previous job as a rancher I had to choke down a crazed cow bare handed

that's not that impressive blunk. i've had to do that more than once, you've obviously never been to oldham.
i realise most girls would be able to hang on a 1 1/2" hold, however i would be the first to shit myself if they did this whilst weighing 225lbs.
i secretly knew you'd say crimping, i knew it, knew it!
be gentle with si, he bruises easily

[Blunk]

You're coming to Hueco soon right Dense? Probably get to wrestle some big girls in El Paso. 

Have a good trip!

[Blunk]

that's not that impressive blunk.

Thanks for saying that, it snapped me out of a terrible flashback. Her hot breath on my face, udders swinging wildly while she bucked up and down on all fours. Me hanging on for dear life until she finally relented and went to her knees.

An experience like that never gets out of your mind, y'know?

Wouldn't mind having a look around Oldham sometime...

[a dense loner]

aw blunk no. i can just imagine what doylo's going to be doing when he reads that paragraph

[Doylo]

splodge

[Jim]

oh no!

[irish si]

merry xmas boeuf

good to see your pulling down on the sports routes....

hope uni aint to bad...

come visit...

[Somebody's Fool]

oh no!

I thought that exchange would have been well below your 'oh no!' threshold Jim.  You getting more sensitive in your old age?  It's not exactly double f**ting.

[Jim]

it is doyle tho

[Doylo]

sayshemme?

[irish si]

shemme

[Doylo]

shem

[irish si]

sh

[SA Chris]

I am 6' 7".  225 lbs is only 5 lbs heavier than my weight when I was climbing my best problems. I have the frame of a bricklayer rather than a modern climber. I am dieting, trying to get down to 215 for the winter.

Holy Shit  Giant! I think I should go climbing with you sometime, just so I know how other people feel when they climb with me. Pity I missed my window when I was based over your way.