[Aussiegav]

not that i plan to, but the erosion thread got me thinking.
however, it would prevent erosion at the top of the crag and also reduce the risk of knocking rocks on to people below whilst swimming up the loose slope on top of the crag.
anyone agree / disagree

[Bonjoy]

 I'd rather take my chances with the loose tops and bring a helmet. I hope never to see bolts placed on grit at all, even if this flys in the face of cold logic. Traditional climbing has an integral element of risk. Evaluating loose finishes, constructing safe belays, staying clear when people are above you on loose ground, are all part of this. However if topouts become particularly nasty I think the best thing to do would be to clear loose material on abseil and consider appropriate stabilisation measure. If there are any routes where there really is nothing to belay off (I've never come accross this at Millstone) then a stake set back from the edge would seem a more trad friendly option.

[squeek]

I hope never to see bolts placed on grit at all

Is this not including all the ones that are already there? 

Your view seems to be the one that is most sensible.

If the situation was slightly different and say there was some rare wildlife, or the owners of the cliff (generic cliff not millstone in particular) said you couldn't top out, but could put a bolted ab station at the top of the route, do you think a belay would be best, or do you think having climbing banned from the cliff would be best?

[Falling Down]

I'm on the disagree side even though it can be a bit grim picking you way through what appears to be a builders yard on some of the top-outs.  It's also one of the great aspects of trad climbing - sitting at the top facing outwards, cooling down after climbing and soaking in the view while you bring your mate up safely and laughing whilst they struggle to retrieve your gear 

Q - Have you had a rope on or something!!

[Bonjoy]

 

I hope never to see bolts placed on grit at all

Is this not including all the ones that are already there? 

Hence 'placed'.

Your view seems to be the one that is most sensible.

If the situation was slightly different and say there was some rare wildlife, or the owners of the cliff (generic cliff not millstone in particular) said you couldn't top out, but could put a bolted ab station at the top of the route, do you think a belay would be best, or do you think having climbing banned from the cliff would be best?

In those circumstances bolts would be preferable to no climbing if it's a quarry. If it was natural grit then any routes without suitable blocks/trees to leave non intrusive insitu gear on would have to be left for the soloist (presuming they can down climb somehow)

[Idol eyes]

W T F !
O M G !
J F C !

[squeek]

I hope never to see bolts placed on grit at all

Is this not including all the ones that are already there? 

Hence 'placed'.

Sorry I read this as, you hope never to see any bolts put in grit, as in "I hope never to see the crown placed on Prince Charles".  Then again my English isn't the best.

[Dr T]

I've got nothing against bolts in general, in fact I would probably put myself in the pro-bolt lobby
thing if you put lower offs on a trad route you lose the ethical basis for not retro bolting the whole crag
if the ethics of grit is no pegs no bolts (which is fine- not like there's not limestone near to clip bolts on) then surely this should rule out lower offs otherwise it's the thin end of the wedge....

[fatboySlimfast]

it's the thin end of the wedge....

excellent, was waiting for that comment
Anyone ever attend a bmc meeting in about 1996/7 in Buxton about bolting, just after the Harpur Hill bolt war?
 Seb G.was there with a massive piece of wedge shaped wood which he kept waving at the arch tradders and bolters

[fatdoc]

bolt war???

coool


what was it? cordless drill duels and bolt hanger whippings for the POWs??

[grimer]

but in the scale of things, the top of millstone is not very loose?

[Bonjoy]

Congrat to you Mr G on the award!

[Andy F]

All you need do is lower a rope with 'biner over the top of your route to either clip and lower off or protect the looser top-outs....

[grimer]

Congrat to you Mr G on the award!

Oh I see, thanks BJ. I spent ages thinking was that an award for not thinking Millstone was very loose

[Fiend]

I hope never to see bolts placed on grit at all, even if this flys in the face of cold logic.

That include Lancashire quarries (which before they are dismissed as "not really counting", the Wiltons at least are better than Millstone...)??

There are a few situations in Lancashire where routes "top out" into vertical Mick Fowler shale, in fact I think some of those have now been sorted with necessary bolt anchors.

As for the Millstone issue....hmmm....I agree with the sitting facing out thing, and the stabilisation.

[dave]

OK the topouts of a lot of millstone routes are on weetabix rock, but I eat fucking weetabix for breakfast.

[Paz]

You have to top out or you don't get the tick.  Except on the Embankment.  and Key Hole Cave.

[Palomides]

Anyone ever attend a bmc meeting in about 1996/7 in Buxton about bolting, just after the Harpur Hill bolt war?
 Seb G.was there with a massive piece of wedge shaped wood which he kept waving at the arch tradders and bolters

I seem to recall that he turned up with it in a guitar case, and had written "Harpur Hill" on the thin end and "Stanage" on the thick end. 

[Paz]