[Anti]

The story of rap glorifying sexual violence is not a new one, as is the history of white men (balding and overweight not a requirement but a common theme) pretending any attempt to change societal attitudes towards women is worthy of mockery.

If Mellow picked this track for its ironic commentary on the pitfalls of traditional rap culture then they've missed an opportunity for discussion. I doubt it though...

[Yossarian]

That was clever about 15 years ago but you don’t see TNF on middle aged outdoor men so much nowadays (I work in that ‘space’). TNF are a youth streetwear brand now. Not sure a large part of their target audience is so down with misogyny/homophobia.

(Apols if any middle aged UKBers are still rockin TNF)

I’m going to argue with you because it’s a Saturday morning and I have lots of work to do...

That vent diagram was drawn by an artist (and vaguely popular influencer -Mr Bingo) in 2018. The full version pointed out his perfect brand alignment as a middle aged man who likes hiking AS WELL
AS a rapper. For every group of kids buying TNF T-shirts there will be at least some middle aged men who view TNF as the go-to brand for the outdoor clothing connoisseur who also likes to rock Kick in the Door on the way back from the crag.

Dead Wrong ACTUALLY REFERENCES The North Face.

Do you think TNF is worried about all the drill artists head to toe in TNF all over YouTube with lyrics like,

“When I leave my yard my shanks tucked, but it might end up in a mans guts”...

[cheque]

I enjoy hip-hop more than most but there can't be many more musical genres that are less appropriate for films of polite European people enjoying healthy pursuits in the great outdoors.

(Apols if any middle aged UKBers are still rockin TNF)

  TNF is my favourite- not quite cool enough for middle-aged mountain blokes, not that cool as “streetwear” either and with a whiff of the 90s about it is basically my niche. They might aim more for a fashion market but their stuff is still technically functional and very easy to find cheap from non-outdoor retailers if you want colours that aren’t sombre enough for the football hooligan/ “urban” market but not madly pattered enough for more posey types.

[webbo]

I have TNF hats, gloves, t shirts, down jacket, red point jacket and a couple of fleeces. Most of it is years old as it doesn’t seem to wear out.

[T_B]

That was clever about 15 years ago but you don’t see TNF on middle aged outdoor men so much nowadays (I work in that ‘space’). TNF are a youth streetwear brand now. Not sure a large part of their target audience is so down with misogyny/homophobia.

(Apols if any middle aged UKBers are still rockin TNF)

I’m going to argue with you because it’s a Saturday morning and I have lots of work to do...

That vent diagram was drawn by an artist (and vaguely popular influencer -Mr Bingo) in 2018. The full version pointed out his perfect brand alignment as a middle aged man who likes hiking AS WELL
AS a rapper. For every group of kids buying TNF T-shirts there will be at least some middle aged men who view TNF as the go-to brand for the outdoor clothing connoisseur who also likes to rock Kick in the Door on the way back from the crag.

Dead Wrong ACTUALLY REFERENCES The North Face.

Do you think TNF is worried about all the drill artists head to toe in TNF all over YouTube with lyrics like,

“When I leave my yard my shanks tucked, but it might end up in a mans guts”...

So Mr Bingo is a middle aged outdoor bloke who listens to 20+ old rap records?

TNF are trying to be Nike as far as I can see. I’m sure they don’t mind all sorts of people wearing their duds, but that’s a bit different to whom they sponsor and their corporate messaging. Lose a little bit of edginess, gain a few more female customers. Recent collabs with Gucci etc.

[Yossarian]

He did make quite a good rap video about his book Hate Mail.

I am just being obtuse. Let's not pretend that vast swathes of the sportswear industry (and fashion industry in general) were well aware of the misogyny / glorification of violence in rap lyrics back in the 90s, yet chose to ignore it because of the massive potential to capitalise on the gargantuan purchasing appetite of global rap fans. I imagine anyone advancing to the position of global brand director for an international sportswear brand was perfectly capable of decoding the lyrics of the superstars wearing his / her products on TV yet didn't rush to condemn them.

Actually, TNF seem to be quite a good job of maintaining their original appeal / market whilst exploiting their more recently acquired fanbase. Burberry singularly failed at this by trying to distance themselves from the latter in the early 2000s whilst losing their original core fans in the process.

Can someone please give Fiend a hug and make him a cup of tea?

[Fiend]

In case you hadn’t noticed you’re not Shawn Raboutou and no one watches your videos.

Any particular reason to be snide and petty?? Other than perhaps having a problem with someone who likes filming esoteric and off-piste stuff, in a down to earth way, to partly inspire people?? A bit like several other people on here do... If you don't think that's worth anything....then just ignore it.

P.S. Don't bother answering, the main discussion is far more interesting.

[Fiend]

I enjoy hip-hop more than most but there can't be many more musical genres that are less appropriate for films of polite European people enjoying healthy pursuits in the great outdoors.

good stuff. I guess music in climbing videos is in the eye of the beholder tho. It might not seem that appropriate nor maybe fitting the grandeur of this line nor the thrilling footage....but maybe he really loves the track....

[Will Hunt]

I don't have a strong opinion on the music myself. It's gangster rap innit? Which is what it is. I don't really care for it. 

Seeing as lots of climbers are quite woke, it should be obvious that some people somewhere might get upset. And maybe there would be a backlash that they'd rather avoid?
But remember that these are the guys who came up with a pointless grading system that wiped its arse on 99.99% of climbers. Could it not just be the case that they're thick? Should we expect people who can climb 8C and film it to also be capable of critical thought?

[Wood FT]

But remember that these are the guys who came up with a pointless grading system that wiped its arse on 99.99% of climbers. Could it not just be the case that they're thick?

[Fiend]

Edit: may have misinterpreted the thrust of T_B's post when presumably the point was "yeah but Shawn's videos have a massive reach so more responsible soundtracking is important" . It was still badly phrased tho.

[webbo]

No I thought it meant you are crap and so are your video’s.

[gme]

This really does read like a daily mail chat room. Shocked from the shires white middle class housewife offended by some lyrics.

All biggie smalls music was like this, as was a whole genre of rap at the same time, was mainstream and top of the charts,  it’s critically acclaimed to this day and still loved by many.
My son and his mates ( male and female) all play this stuff but I guess they are not 40 + year old curmudgeons and will love the idea we don’t approve.

[gme]

Oh and I thought the video was great. Can only assume it’s been put in the non quality as Mary whitehouse was upset.

Got to be the best problem in the world.

[Bradders]

Oh and I thought the video was great. Can only assume it’s been put in the non quality as Mary whitehouse was upset.

Got to be the best problem in the world.

What a burn.

Funny though how this must be one of the few things Mary Whitehouse and snowflake woke lefties like me would agree on.

All biggie smalls music was like this, as was a whole genre of rap at the same time, was mainstream and top of the charts,  it’s critically acclaimed to this day and still loved by many.
My son and his mates ( male and female) all play this stuff but I guess they are not 40 + year old curmudgeons and will love the idea we don’t approve.

All true. Hardly makes it right though.

In the song he raps about raping someone's mother into unconsciousness, shooting babies, punching a pregnant woman in the stomach, stabbing a gay man, raping someone's father with a broom, and using condoms to rape virgins so he can't be traced. Isn't it completely bizarre that there's even a debate over whether that's acceptable or not?

And not that it matters but I'm a long way off 40.

[gme]

I wasn’t calling anyone woke or lefty it’s just a fact that this stuff has been rattling the cages of the left/right, woke, religious, conservative middle class etc for years. Rock music, rap music, rave, drill. You name it it will have been commented on just like this thread. Yet there is no evidence that it actually makes the listeners go out and commit these heinous acts. Video games actually let you live out some of this stuff and cause the same outrage.
Kids love everything that pisses off the adults and like it or not TNF and mellows market is not 30-40 50 year old men who write on chat rooms so the music fits well.

[mrjonathanr]

What is the track?

[gme]

It’s called “dead wrong”. Might be a giveaway in the title.

[mrjonathanr]

Thanks.

[shark]

This is fantastic stuff. Proper old skool Daily Mail style outrage. Love it.

I listen to music full of lyrics about torturing people to death, chainsawing faces off, battery acid enemas, forced abortions, flaying people alive, etc etc...

....and it's sure as hell going on my next bouldering video. I'll even put subtitles in in case the growling and shrieking is incomprehensible.

Amazing bluster given how thin skinned you can be...

[Duma]

I don't like the music either but as long as they're not playing it at the crag...
Much more interesting to me is that he appears to be upgrading it. Even the generous old rocklands guide had it at 8C. Jimmy Webb said proper 8C when he did the 2nd ascent I think but can't recall hearing 8C+ until now?
Also shame you don't get any better angles. For ref Nalle does it at the start of this:

I'm sure there was footage of Ondra somewhere that had a better angle but can't find it now?

[Fiend]

Amazing bluster given how thin skinned you can be...

Shark, I'm not sure what is so hard to get about this. I'll try to be clearer.

In my post I was not directly insulting nor belittling Bradders etc. I was mocking the outrage, but this was not specifically targetted at anyone, nor was it denigrating what they do with their climbing nor media output.

T_B's post was directly belittling me and what I do putting out my own wee climbing videos

(Although I do accept this might have been a mis-interpretation his post might have just been a very badly phrased way of saying "But the difference is this is a video of a top climber and will get lots more exposure so the music is more debatable" - hence my speculative retraction of my initial reply, and I stand by that retraction and apologise if so).

I hope that difference is clearer now. If you wish to find me strange because I am very jovial when it comes to mutual banter, heated debate and obviously non-denigrating piss-taking (and FFS, I proudly paint toy soldiers, listen to appalling music, climb choss, wear neon vests, refuse to put pads beneath routes etc etc - god knows there is a lot to piss take about, and time after time I've happily set myself up for that (actually including in the very post in question in this thread!)), BUT I am thin-skinned when it comes to unprovoked personal insults and off-topic snideness, then yes I am that strange.

[Fiend]

I wasn’t calling anyone woke or lefty it’s just a fact that this stuff has been rattling the cages of the left/right, woke, religious, conservative middle class etc for years. Rock music, rap music, rave, drill. You name it it will have been commented on just like this thread. Yet there is no evidence that it actually makes the listeners go out and commit these heinous acts. Video games actually let you live out some of this stuff and cause the same outrage.
Kids love everything that pisses off the adults and like it or not TNF and mellows market is not 30-40 50 year old men who write on chat rooms so the music fits well.

This is a good point and was partly what I was hinting at before. Rewind 20 years and if a climbing video had showed someone playing Doom whilst resting, or the soundtrack was Cannibal Corpse, would it have got similar outrage?? Maybe, maybe not.

Having said that I watched it without paying any attention to being a TNF video so one could argue they could have a bit more awareness about the music on it - blimey if Bradder's lyrical report is right that's as bad as some of the goregrind I listen to.

Has anyone asked Shawn if he just really fucking loves that track irrespective of it's vulgarity??

[Loos3-tools]

Being an overweight middle aged Caucasian bald man I believe it’s my god given right to listen to gansta rap at full volume while driving to work. Shawn is operating totally out of his sphere of acceptability as he has hair is young and talented at climbing. He should try Tracy Chapman while crying into a pint of Ribena

 https://www.instagram.com/p/CLR-HLLDOBo/?igshid=17e9pbi17tc96

[Loos3-tools]

This is fantastic stuff. Proper old skool Daily Mail style outrage. Love it.

I listen to music full of lyrics about torturing people to death, chainsawing faces off, battery acid enemas, forced abortions, flaying people alive, etc etc...

....and it's sure as hell going on my next bouldering video. I'll even put subtitles in in case the growling and shrieking is incomprehensible.

Amazing bluster given how thin skinned you can be...

Apparently you need a fucking phd in piss taking to understand the rules