[chriss]

Fuck me Jim- you sound like my dad haha!! I get a bit ill & it's all down to being vegan nothing to do with the fact the flu bug has been doing the rounds. I haven't suffered injury wise since going vegan, but I'm pretty good at eating well.
Only thing I can say is that I need to eat right if I'm away on a trip as I'll get knackered fast or won't recover that well for the next day. That said at home I never struggle, to be fair I am climbing better & stronger than ever. I also do lots of running & mountainbiking so a carb rich diet is handy for those activities.
Ben Prich- do you recon Carl Lewis was doped up a bit? I'm keen to bang the vegge/vegan drum, but I think he may of had some 'extra' help if you catch my drift...

[benpritch]

Fuck me Jim- you sound like my dad haha!! I get a bit ill & it's all down to being vegan nothing to do with the fact the flu bug has been doing the rounds. I haven't suffered injury wise since going vegan, but I'm pretty good at eating well.
Only thing I can say is that I need to eat right if I'm away on a trip as I'll get knackered fast or won't recover that well for the next day. That said at home I never struggle, to be fair I am climbing better & stronger than ever. I also do lots of running & mountainbiking so a carb rich diet is handy for those activities.
Ben Prich- do you recon Carl Lewis was doped up a bit? I'm keen to bang the vegge/vegan drum, but I think he may of had some 'extra' help if you catch my drift...

erm I thought that was all sprinters used 'extra' help so it still shows that a vegan diet can sustain an athlete at the top level i think?

[Houdini]

I'm not sure it's helpful to even mention Carl Lewis in a thread on climbing diet. 


I doubt any climber would spend as much time training, and certainly not have as much riding on success/failure as someone of Lewis' ilk - nevermind any aspect of the two disciplines having any "cross-over".

[tobym]

Pardon me for asking, but what's Carl Lewis ever done on grit?

[benpritch]

I'm not sure it's helpful to even mention Carl Lewis in a thread on climbing diet. 


I doubt any climber would spend as much time training, and certainly not have as much riding on success/failure as someone of Lewis' ilk - nevermind any aspect of the two disciplines having any "cross-over".

that was fairly vitriolic...wtf?

[Paul B]

the heights in Llanberis are currently selling "vegetarian meatballs", interesting 

[Houdini]

I'm not sure it's helpful to even mention Carl Lewis in a thread on climbing diet. 


I doubt any climber would spend as much time training, and certainly not have as much riding on success/failure as someone of Lewis' ilk - nevermind any aspect of the two disciplines having any "cross-over".

that was fairly vitriolic...wtf?

Please point out the vitriol, I'm lost... mostly due to the complete lack of vitriol in what you've quoted.   If you're not taking drugs then you should be.  That's not remotely vitriolic. 

[robertostallioni]

IN the words of a McDonalds 2008 Beijing Olympics representative

Carl Lewis diet ramblings

[benpritch]

I'm not sure it's helpful to even mention Carl Lewis in a thread on climbing diet. 


I doubt any climber would spend as much time training, and certainly not have as much riding on success/failure as someone of Lewis' ilk - nevermind any aspect of the two disciplines having any "cross-over".

that was fairly vitriolic...wtf?

Please point out the vitriol, I'm lost... mostly due to the complete lack of vitriol in what you've quoted.   If you're not taking drugs then you should be.  That's not remotely vitriolic. 

hmmm... let me see. I have presented someone involved in an athletic discipline who precludes animal products from their diet who performs at world class standards. you have in no uncertain terms dissed me for presenting said person as irrelevant and not pertinant to said discussion. i believe that this is relevant. i would like you to explain why you think it is irrelevant. but not just by saying it is irrelevant.

[chriss]

Alright Ben P I hope you don't think I was having a dig at all? Carl Lewis was an amazing sprinter & in some ways he dose cross over a bit, being a sprinter & having to have fast twitch muscle fibers & all that bollox like us fair boulderers. All I was saying is that he, like 99.9% of sprinters had 'extra' help althought the vegan diet must of helped too, well being vegan I would say that thou......

[benpritch]

not you chriss - was houdini but I'm over it now.

[Houdini]

Ben, you're imagining things.  Bizarre!

No vitriol no dissing just a simple harmless polite opinion expressed [it's there printed above] that I didn't think Lewis is pertinent in a thread on climbing diet.




Get over it?  What?  Crumbs, drawing on reserves hither to unforseen...  How do you do it?   

[benpritch]

sorry i  got all sensitive.

I'm still keen to know why you think it is irrelevant though.

here are my reasons for why i think it is relevant in spite of the performance enhancing stuff.

climbing/bouldering and sprinting are both athletic activities with an emphasis on power

climbers and sprinters require nutrition in order to perform and recover

can't think of any more

[blueskyblue]

Should be both; veggies and meat. A balanced diet will make your body healthy. 

[erm, sam]

You mention that your mate tends to sugary stuff and I think this might have a much greater influence on how energised etc they feel during the day, than whether they eat meat.
I find that snacking on short chain sugar containing food makes me feel much more weak fucked and tired, compared to only snacking on sunflower seed, pumkin seeds and apricots. You get a spike and a crash, especially when combined with stop go excersie.
At first it takes a lot of discipline, but after a while it is pretty easy to avoid the sweets and bicsuits...
Except at work at 8pm. STARVING.

[aquamarinesea]

When eating veggies, you'll get hungry easily; but when it comes to meat, it's heavier. If you need more energy, meat is better. 

[Lund]

When eating veggies, you'll get hungry easily; but when it comes to meat, it's heavier. If you need more energy, meat is better. 

Forgive me all for de-cloaking, but you're joking, right?

There's little or no evidence to suggest that a vegan diet is better for you.  Certainly, I wouldn't believe anything any self-publicising "nutritionist" said if they claimed that drinking 10 pints of pulped vegetables a day would make you a better athlete.  There are certain amino acid groups that you can't get from plants I think - and although your body can synthesize most of the AA's from a few basics, it's not more efficient to do so.  As a source of protein, although soya lentils and nuts and whatnot are good, they're not perfect.

On the other hand, neither are meat products only the answer - along with parrots and some kind of frog, we can't make vitamin C, so we'd be screwed if we didn't get that somehow.  Also, eating meat has it's own dangers - the LDL cholesterol content of animal products for example.  Some ridiculous proportion of people are actually allergic to diary.  (Native Americans are apparently all lactose intolerant?)

As to giving you more energy: you need to tailor both the type and volume of your food intake to the level and timing of activity.  If you get up and cycle 15 miles to work at or near your LT, then you're burning tonnes of sugar.  Immediately after waking.  This is going to be tough, you're going to burn lots of sugar at that level of effort, and you don't have time to get up and eat loads of carbs then wait an hour.  So your only real option is electrolytes and fructose type drinks whilst cycling, and then recover the deficit by eating complex carbs when you arrive.  If you don't drink the drink, you'll bonk during the exercise.  If you don't eat when you get to work, then you'll fall asleep because you're at an energy deficit.  If you eat protein, then you'll not restore the glycogen - and so you'll feel tired.  If you just drink loads of sugary drinks or have something too sweet when you arrive - you'll have too much simple sugar in the recover period and thus you'll get an insulin rush that's too large, go more into glucose deficit, and give yourself type II diabetes!  Good isn't it, being an athlete?

Going bouldering?  It's largely the phosphate and anaerobic energy system.  You synthesize that from glycogen etc..  You've got plenty in reserve for an hours worth of hard training even if you're absolutely nailing it - probably.  So although you do need to replace those stores, they haven't been absolutely twatted.  So you need to eat sensibly, with more carbs than a sedentary individual.  However, you also need to get more amino acids, as a muscle recovery food - and because your body burns protein anyway.  The majority of those you can get from nuts or whatnot if you insist, and you can probably make do without some of them - but it's easier to just eat chicken.

So: eat more than your lazy flatmate, but less fat.  Unless you're also an alpinist, when you'll want to chow on the fat too, but that's a different story...

[matthew]

Good answer Lund.

Apparently:- 
"The ability to digest lactose moreover only continues after childhood in roughly one-third of the population worldwide, hence, a lot of adults tend to have lactose intolerance of some sort after passing childhood. Lactose intolerance tends to affect certain demographic groups, thus the majority of adult individuals of Asian, African, Native American or Middle Eastern descent tend to suffer from some form or the other of the condition. At least 20% of Caucasians suffer a deficiency of the lactase enzyme as adults and roughly half of adult Hispanics also tend to be deficient to some degree as far as lactase is concerned."
Which I found interesting, are these the same groups which have a tendency for diabetes? Cos it's a bit mean. No milk no sugar.

When eating veggies, you'll get hungry easily; but when it comes to meat, it's heavier. If you need more energy, meat is better. 

Forgive me all for de-cloaking, but you're joking, right?

I do find that no matter how much raw veg and fruit I eat I will get hungry quite quickly.

[slackline]

Good answer Lund.

Apparently:-  
"The ability to digest lactose moreover only continues after childhood in roughly one-third of the population worldwide, hence, a lot of adults tend to have lactose intolerance of some sort after passing childhood. Lactose intolerance tends to affect certain demographic groups, thus the majority of adult individuals of Asian, African, Native American or Middle Eastern descent tend to suffer from some form or the other of the condition. At least 20% of Caucasians suffer a deficiency of the lactase enzyme as adults and roughly half of adult Hispanics also tend to be deficient to some degree as far as lactase is concerned."
Which I found interesting, are these the same groups which have a tendency for diabetes? Cos it's a bit mean. No milk no sugar.

Pima Indians (N. American) have exceptionally high incidence of Type II diabetes (or Non-Insulin Dependent Diabete Mellitus).  They have therefore been studied intensely for genetic factors that contribute to the diseases aetiology (one of my friends is a Fellow at the Sanger center in Cambridge and works on the genetics of NIDDM).

See the Online Mendelian Inheritance In Man entry for the lowdown on the genetics.

There's also an entry for the lactase gene which describes associated traits and frequencies such as congenital lactose intolerance and lactase persistence.  Its located on chromosome 2q21 (see ideograms for what the q21 means) which isn't one of the many loci that carries genes/markers that have demonstrated association with NIDDM (to date, thats not to say that the lactase gene isn't involved, it just might have a very small effect size which would require a very large study population to have the power to detect it).

[moose]

As a sideline note, the tannins in tea inhibit iron absorption. So have a think about how much and when you're drinking tea.

Only just noticed this.  Please say it aint so: I drink at least 5 pints of tea a day.  Mind you it might explain my bloodless appearance.  Coincidentally, I was in London on tuesday and walked past an NHS stand that was raising awareness of atrial fibrillation (irregular heartrate) by taking the pulse of passers-by.  The nurse just could not find my pulse - she was struggling for around five minutes, pressing so hard her nails gouged my skin before giving up (a poor show considering that I'm not exactly a fleshy person).  Not very reassuring really - I'm either in terrible shape or.....a zombie! 

Re training and food, I find that my problem isn't so much diet, but appetite.  I just do not feel hungry during exercise.  I'll have porridge for breakfast but during an average four hourish session of concerted bouldering will generally only eat an apple.  Anything more substantial makes me feel queasy - and it's worse the harder I'm climbing.  It doesn't seem to harm my peformance whilst at the crag, but I suspect feeling like I'm going to faint whilst driving home isn't a good sign (although it is reassuring on some level to know how hard I can push myself).  I suspect I'm only held together by the restorative powers of a litre flask of stong coffee and the prospect of a curd tart when I get home (curd tarts the Yorkshire source of power: the combined goodness of dried fruit, cottage-cheesey curds, and lard!).

[slackline]

As a sideline note, the tannins in tea inhibit iron absorption. So have a think about how much and when you're drinking tea.

Coincidentally, I was in London on tuesday and walked past an NHS stand that was raising awareness of atrial fibrillation (irregular heartrate) by taking the pulse of passers-by.  The nurse just could not find my pulse - she was struggling for around five minutes, pressing so hard her nails gouged my skin before giving up (a poor show considering that I'm not exactly a fleshy person).  Not very reassuring really - I'm either in terrible shape or.....a zombie! 

Was she trying your wrist (not so worrying) or your neck (very worrying if no pulse can be found in the jugular!!!)

[Sloper]

Houdini,

Are you really a veggie?  I seem to remember you eating a triple duck dinner in Font, remember the roadkill?

[Houdini]

Your memory is like a collander.

I gave up eating meat when I was 17.  Though I do once in a blue moon try something I haven't eaten before, though I draw the line at crustaceans Bleurgh!  I nibbled a piece of duck, I didn't eat a triple duck dinner.  I recall saying it was Alright, I just wouldn't want to eat it. 
There was a Pheasant that I killed too remember, it was winged by a shooting party a mile or so from Neils' gaff - it fell from the sky nearly hitting me.  I didn't try that though - not because I had problems eating something I stamped to death - but because I recall the flavour from my youth.

I tried some raw Salmon the other week, thin slices w/ gravad lachs sauce:  it tasted like shit.  The sauce was nice though, I like it better on Appenzeller and sliced tomato.

[superfurrymonkey]

That jibes with what Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine President Dr. Neal Barnard says in his book, The Power of Your Plate, in which he explains that "early humans had diets very much like other great apes, which is to say a largely plant-based diet, drawing on foods we can pick with our hands. Research suggests that meat-eating probably began by scavenging--eating the leftovers that carnivores had left behind. However, our bodies have never adapted to it. To this day, meat-eaters have a higher incidence of heart disease, cancer, diabetes, and other problems."
Full article here, I'm interested on others thoughts on this as I'm no expert but am interested in cutting down on my meat intake or perhaps going full veggie! :'(
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kathy-freston/shattering-the-meat-myth_b_214390.html

[Richie Crouch]

BBQ tonight. Burgers, sausages, steaks and Chicken Kebabs. A well balanced diet for apres climb recovery