[chummer]

Great stuff Butters, really appreciate the knowledge. Seems like the newer the T5 the better with regard to inherent mechanical problems.
The 1.9 104hp seems to fit the bill, I could always get it remapped.
Actually looking forward to the search for me van, thanks to everyone for the advice and knowledge, I'll keep you posted and will no doubt be consulting this thread again very shortly when I'm all  and a bit 

[bobkatebob]

First of all please don't get too upset that I havn't read all 24 pages about campervan knowledge 

Anyway, I need to cange my much loved car soon, now I was thinking of a nice Audi TT. THing is it's rather impractical and other than occasional usage it will just get driven to the station and back once a week.

Then I had an idea, A van, we are paying loads to get stuff delivered and if it was done out very basically inside we could also use it as a basic camper for short trips.

So, I would be looking for an unconverted van to do a little bit of convertion on it (It needs to be able to still carry sheets of ply etc). I see that T4 and T5 seem to have a premium on their price is it worth it? I quite like the look of the Renault Trafic or the Merc Vito other than a the back that opens up rather than 2 doors, what other pros/cons are there between them?

Unless I Borrow  Mr BKB's car then it will be my only set of wheels, so I was thinking of going for a SWB, is this too much of a compromise?

I feel like there are too many questions that I can't decide on, that I am going to end up procrastinating until the car I have now dies  and then end up rushing things.

Any and all help very welcome indeed.

bkb.....

[nik at work]

I know nothing about camper vans but if you're looking to move sheets of ply/plasterboard etc without trashing/emptying your semi-converted interior get a 4' x 8' roof rack. There's loads of them about for all makes of van and they are brilliant. I use mine all the time. Obviously you'll still need to use the interior of the van to shift bags of sand/cement etc but hey-ho you can't have everything...

[SA Chris]

How many would you intend ever having sleep in it? All 3 of you? How about something of a VW Caddy size? Might  be a bit of a problem for someone of mr bkb's height to sleep comfortably in, but you can work around that. Alternatively you could look at a Gallic equivalent, something like a Peugot Partner, or whatever the Citroen / Renault versions are.

A SWB of most vans is more than enough, otherwise they start getting a bit trickier to drive / park etc.

Regarding the double door / tailgate question, as most utility vehicles are used for carrying loads they come with double doors as a standard so that they can be loaded and unloaded with a forklift. Tailgates are usually an option though, and are useful for providing shelter when trying to get out a wetsuit in the pissing rain, and make fitting a bike rack a bit easier.

[SA Chris]

I know nothing about camper vans but if you're looking to move sheets of ply/plasterboard etc without trashing/emptying your semi-converted interior get a 4' x 8' roof rack. There's loads of them about for all makes of van and they are brilliant. I use mine all the time. Obviously you'll still need to use the interior of the van to shift bags of sand/cement etc but hey-ho you can't have everything...

Or just get a trailer!

[bobkatebob]

Hey guys, thanks for the responses so far.

Tailgate is going on the list of must have I think, definately an added bonus to have somewhere to shelter under.

Friends have a caddy (or something like it), I think I would want a little bit more room, including the ability to sit up and move around fairly easily in the back.

We have a trailer so should put towbar on wish list. Think the roofrack might be the way forward for ply. For other stuff could I look at removable backseat/bed? with campervan ameneties just down 1 side?

It would mainly be used during the week during the french long summer hols by Mr BKB and his mini-me. Though it would be nice for all of us to use it sometimes. I would definately be looking at 3 seats up front, can you get it so just the driver seat can swivel round if you have a 2 seat pasenger seat next to it?

I have seen those streacher like beds that go over the front seats, they say they are for children, but there are toddlers and there are pre-teens (well in size), I am not sure how long this would be a viable option.

If I don't reply back staright away, it's cause I am on my long comute 

[butters]

Will reply later when I have more time but would advise against a Vito unless you like dealing with tin worm.

[bobkatebob]

One question I have. I have heard loads over the years that the best place to buy a Camper was Germany.
Now as I have the delights of being in Germany 3 days a week, I thought I might see what vans were like over here.

I am seriously disappointed, either I am looking in the wrong place or I have to wait until the exchange rate changes loads, but it seems to me you get even less van for your money over here than you do in the UK, it's nearly as bad as France (though not quite, it seems anything second hand, even totally beat up comands nearly new prices in France, and this isn't just cars,  ).

So guys am I missing something?

BTW, I am looking at spending some pounds, that is why the interest rates come into play when looking at €

[butters]

Right I have found five minutes.

VW's really do attract the scene tax and the situation is not getting any better at the minute - the T4 is really holding its value at the minute and it is possible to pick up a newer T5 for similar money if you shop around. The reason for this is people like the look of the T4 more - it seems to have a classic look that people like and also there is a lot more electronics on the T5 which make them more difficult to work on yourself if that is your thing. The T5 also gets slated (unjustifiably in my opinion) as a less reliable van. As already mentioned avoid the Merc Vito - they just attract rust like there is no tomorrow for some reason. I know next to nothing about other vans to be honest (I have a T5) but all it is at the end of the day is a tin box and you kit it out how you want.

Removable back seat is a possibility and there are a few different options available but most have not been crash tested - I think SA Chris has the full crash tested one but you are talking mega bucks for one compared to the non-crash tested variant and they aren't cheap - whether Chris's is removable I have no idea.

Swivel on the drivers seat with the bench seat fitted - from a T5 perspective it won't work as there isn't enough space between the two IMO and I would imagine that you will have the same issues with any other van.

As for SWB vs LWB - I would always go for SWB as it makes the van more manageable in a day to day situation - again referring to the T5 as that is what I know best the difference between the two is 400mm on the loading area I think which isn't much but it all adds up.

For build ideas it is always worth checking out the VW T4 Forum - it is specifically for VW's buut the ideas should be transferable to any model of van with a bit of gumption but be aware that there are a lot of really tempting ideas on there to go at.

Any other questions... 

[SA Chris]

Removable back seat is a possibility and there are a few different options available but most have not been crash tested - I think SA Chris has the full crash tested one but you are talking mega bucks for one compared to the non-crash tested variant and they aren't cheap - whether Chris's is removable I have no idea.

Swivel on the drivers seat with the bench seat fitted - from a T5 perspective it won't work as there isn't enough space between the two IMO and I would imagine that you will have the same issues with any other van.

We got a crash tested RIB bed fitted, yes mega expensive, but with small children in the back a lot of the time we wanted peace of mind. And no it's not removable without a lot of effort, but as it converts to a bed there is no real need to remove it. If we want to carry stuff in the back we lay the bed flat cover it with some old blankets and stack stuff on top of it. I think if you were looking for something with removable seats so you could fit a bed, A Caravelle, Kombi or similar may be the way to go.  And with 1 + 2 seat bench  up front I don't think there is any van that you could fit a swivel on the seat. The bench seat can be folded forward though (i think) so you can sit on that if needed. Not as comfy though.

[Adam Lincoln]

Fnow I was thinking of a nice Audi TT. T

I have a lovely red Audi TT i am selling 

[butters]

The bench seat can be folded forward though (i think) so you can sit on that if needed. Not as comfy though.

Depends on the seat fitted - not all do. The one in my T5 does and will possibly become available sometime later this year but no guarantee on that one.

[bobkatebob]

Thanks guys for all the help, Well except for Adam  You have to realise that the TT was me being practical (there were others on my list  ), but the realisation of what getting a van would mean, means the van is winning.

Butters, thanks for the lowdown, and SA Chris, I really think that we won't be needing a crash rated back seat, there will only ever be 3 of us max.

Regards the scene tax, I am really not wanting to pay it, I've never been trendy, so why splash the cash and start now?  I am looking at good age/mileage/spec combos, would rather save the money for doing the inside nicely.

there are 2 sorts that seem to have been catching my eye ex AA and ex RAC vans (am I actually just being girly about their colour  ) the age/milage combos seem good, then they have towbars, tailgate, 3 front seats. The RAC are Transit SWB 330 and the AA are Renault Trafic SL29. Thing is other than styling difference and wether we gain brownie points with the locals is there really anything in it between the 2 (or should I avoid both?).

Thank you for being patient with all my questions, but I really feel like I am making headway on narrowing down what I am looking for which I really appreciate.

(Hopefully not too many more questions now Butters  )

[butters]

Don't know much about either of those vans to be honest - worth a search of Google and any forums associated with the two different models to see what turns up but be aware that the bad tends to get reported a lot more than the good.

I will stand down on the questions front for now then but feel free to ask away some more when it come to sorting out the inside. I will say now that it is best to decide pretty much exactly what you want and then have an ordered plan from there. I have done pROJECT mAYHEM once already but it will be undergoing a minor refit next week to correct a few minor annoyances and general cock ups from not doing the above...

[SA Chris]

Can't remember where, but earlier in this thread someone made mention of Transits being rustbuckets?

We looked at one briefly, but were put off by RWD. Not ideal for winter roads up here, but unlikely an issue for you.

[Bubba]

There should be plenty of FWD Trannies about.

[Paul B]

I've seen Renault traffic / Vauxhall Vivaro and whatever Peugeout call them converted to campers (mainly by the Spanish) and they are quite different to the usually selected vans. From my limited experience they seemed to be wider but with a lower roof in the rear.

T4's/5's attract a premium because they're nice vans and are nice to drive. This can't be said for all vans and could be a real pain on long distances. Things are getting slightly out of hand with t4's and AA versions are even more expensive as they're now pretty rare but the 5's seem reasonable to me?

The transit I hired for my last IKEA raie was great but it wasn't a patch on the T4. Its also worth noting that the information on most sites refers to the more popular vans, mainly the VW's.

Is there a budget to work with here (sorry to pry) as that might help narrow things down?

[bobkatebob]

Hmm, sounds like it would be good to test drive a few to see how well/badly they do drive. The van could well end up doing some serious mileage.

Good to know about the RWD, I stopped using my car this winter due to snow, they grit on hills but not on flat however sharp the corner 

Rust is always a concern, I don't want to buy cheap then end up with big maintenance bills every year, but don't want to just spend extra as others think the styling is trendy so are more sort after.

Didn't think too much about hight, though Mr BKB might like not hitting his head too much, not much of a problem for me though, most of them I could stand up fine in ;-)

Budget, well it's about the 5k mark that's not taking into acount any pennies I can get for my car, though I think it could bump it up to 6k. thing is, get cheaper but spend some on starting converting, or blow it all on the van, then wait for a while for converting 

[Paul B]

againt it depends on how 'converted' you want it (and if converting is in the above budget?)...

A T4/5 seems feasible IMO.

[fatboySlimfast]

seem to remember a cheap rnroller bed for sale somewhere

[saintlade]

Hey guys,

just bought a Nissan Primastar (Vauxhall Vivaro/Renault trafic clone) and fitting it out as a light camper van. Going to ply and insulate, fit a bench down the driver side of the van which will fold out into a bed platform with some storage underneath. I expect I will be spending some time in it in winter and thus thinking of putting some sort of vapour barrier down between the metal panels and the insulation to stop it rusting inside out. I was thinking of just laying down dust sheet under the insulation as it's cheap as chips and I figured being plastic should do the job. Am I being thick and missing something or does this sound like a reasonable solution?

I've got 25mm polystyrene insulation with foam backing for the floor, slotting between 25mm batons which will support the ply floor. Then going to put some lino on top of that. For the sides and roof have got some 50mm dritherm cavity slab roofing insulation and going to carpet over this. Will post some pictures later of progress.

Stu

[SA Chris]

Unless it's completely airtight moisture can get behind it, so if it's not part of the solution it can be part of the problem. Corrosion under insulation can be a right pig to deal with in most situations.

[saintlade]

So best not to bother at all as I can't imagine it's easy getting it airtight? I guess it comes down to opening a window at night and making sure there's a bit of ventilation to cut down on condensation in winter then?

[butters]

Insulation is a tricky subject and depends on what you will be doing in winter as much as anything - if you are going to be doing Scottish Winter climbing or cooking in the van then you are probably going to suffer a problem with moisture getting behind things. On the other hand if it just sleeping in the van then make sure that the air can circulate (have a window or two slightly open at night) then the problem should regulate itself a lot better. Getting a pair of deflectors helps a lot with this as well as the window doesn't look open unless you look closely and also provides a cover against wind\rain getting directly into the van.

With regard to Chris's point - what you need to be wary of is insulation that can retain moisture - some types of loft insulation are reputed to be bad for this that's when you have problems. If you are using something like Celotex\Kingspan I can not see it being much of an issue to my mind - I have got  the above in my van and having just ripped the floor out again in a random episode of rebuilding there wasn't anything to worry about there after 12 months. Also warm air inside will have to go through a ply floor and 25mm of insulation or through the carpeted board and the insulation behind that before it hits the cold air outside so the chances of vapour build up isn't that high IMO.

As ever I recommend a search of the T4 Forum will provide a lot of thought on the matter (some good some bad) so all I can really say is do your research and make your own mind up. 

One last point - 50mm insulation in the roof? Check your measurements on that as I suspect you are going to be short of room by 30mm and that is just to the roof panel so lights and the like are going to require recesses in that. I used two or three layers of the silver backed bubble wrap between the gaps which seems to be fine and doesn't compromise anything.

[Duma]

Will have some questions for butters soon I'm sure (assuming the vast dataset that is the T4 forums can't help), but just spent a week in font in her, and very pleased to be back in the van way.

Edit: Work IT bollocks seems to be interfering with my ability to post flickr links, but you should be able to click through