[Bonjoy]

 Next year I'm planning an extended roadtrip round europe. As it will be a long trip we are going to get us a van.
 Anyone had any experience of doing this before?
 Am looking for ideas on the best type of van to get , budget up to £10,000(will need someting powerful + narrow enough to get up dirt tracks to crags)? Deisel or petrol? Pre-made or self conversion?
 Any recomended place to find van?
 What are the pitfalls?
 Is your average van up to very cold temps, or is some winterisation needed?
 How much for insurance?
 Can contents be insured during trip, how pricey?
 Any ideas on extra security for contents?

 Tah
 Or any other pearls of wisdom?

[Nibile]

my opinion as a three year self converted ford transit owner.

the van will change your life. youll never get back to usual cars for trips.
anyway,
when travelling with the van, which is a 2.5 diesel, i never hurry.
i made insulation with a 2mm panel glued to the roof (high roof recommended, so you can stand inside) and the walls, and never suffered from the cold, even in cresciano winter. now im planning a wooden coverage of the interiors. you just need a good sleeping bag. the drawback, and thats why the wooden insulation, is that if its very cold, the breath during the night can condensate on the roof, causing a bit of guttage.
i have a two fires kitchen with sink, and the porta-potty.
and thats all.
its basic, but has plenty of room for two people, two crashpads with bags and everything, and can sleep with my 9.2 longboard inside, attached to the roof.

i suggest to search for the ones with the double tires in tha back, and perhaps turbo-diesel.
if i can i post a pic.

[Nibile]

Next year I'm planning an extended roadtrip round europe.
 

ps COME SOUTH.

[Bonjoy]

Cheers. Super vague itinerary so far is a month or so tradding round UK/Ireland June-July, then Ceuse for maybe a month, then some other French sport crags, then Rodellar and other north Spanish areas, when weather gets cooler head to magic wood/cresciano, then north Spanish sandstone, targason, then font. But will no doubt change plans a when I start researching what's really out there. Has Italy got any must-visit sport climbing/bouldering?

[Nibile]

do-lo-mi-tes.

for the bouldering, theres alot in few hours drive.
although i have to admit theres much more in font/albarracin.

[Bonjoy]

 Have been to Dolomites and loved it. Would dearly love to do the Brandler Hasse route! But not sure if we will be bringing muti-pitch trad gear. But it would make a nice change from all the bolt clipping. Hmmm 

[jfw]

eh up jonboy

gib's van which i call ours, is a self converted vito (turbo diesel) and cost about £8,000 at the time (with nowt in it).

first we made (ok he made) a bed unit, that folds up into a seat (grey area of legality - not as bad as people in a van with no seats, but not really legal as no seatbelts - even though you can utilise the seatbelt points on the floor - there are issues in proving your seat is up to it.) we splashed out on specially made foam upholstered cushions for the bed which proved to be a good investment.

well we had this for ages with no other storage except for round the back under the bed - the front section being taken up by ludicrously big speakers. all our stuff was in a some big plastic boxes which had some boards on them to act as surface.rest stove on etc. wouldn't have the sub woofer  if i did it again.

one reason for not fitting storage units sooner was losing the double side door capability of the van - required for picking  up small children from both sides of the road - ok then, thought might need when using van for access work when carting big kit round. but in the end one side door was sacrificed for an MDF kitchen unit with a sink. good revelation - loads better - i'd probably do all one wall in unit if we start again (and i'd probably get a transporter - though vito does drive beaut, like a car).

van is lined with ply for insulation - condensation can be an issue in cold cold places - ply can be further enhanced by filling behind with foam (though this can affect the reversibility of the conversion - if thats an issue for resale). for full on full on winter you might struggle for cold - starting the van and running with heater on fairly standard de-misting technique. big vans - you can have heaters - but gas heaters give more condensation to the mix - best true winter vans i've seen have wood stoves (much drier heat) - but if its that cold (i.e. alps)you want your head checking. anyway vito not big enough for such shenanigans (if you go down that route remember - your chimney is a great heat source - but may burn you, and carbon monoxide can kill you).

leaving the windows cracked helps - skylights help (and good for cooking) - but reduces the stealth nature of the self converted camper.

registering as a camper - if you register your van as a camper - you have to supply a plan of the layout (we haven't done this) - there is a minimum bed length (i think you may have to have a sink - not sure on this) - but you can get some better insurance deals. there are advantages of this over being registered/insured as a commercial vehicle (did you know commercial vehicles are only meant to to 50 mph on national speed limit roads??)

this size - vito/transporter - was ideal for us - though it sure is easy to fill it with crap. some van converting mates who wanted to stow bikes safely we round europe in their converted boxer - HUUUUGE. they had a living quarters at the front - then used the back doors as a seperate secure storage facility to put bikes and skis/snowboards in.

once you have been on van trips you never want to camp again!! its ace!!

sorry for this stream of conciousness, unstructured reply.

[fatdoc]

look on gravity-slaves.co.uk forum

no place like home van for sale on there, would be ideal!!!

[Bonjoy]

 Great knowledge there, cheers.

[Nibile]

ps the two things that completely changed the comfort in the van were:
1) the kitchen/sink, cos its a pain in the ass to have the portable stove around, always risking to fall (with your dinner). i have an electric pump connected to the battery, and two 10 liters plastic cans. one has clean water, with the pump innit, that goes to the tap, the other the water from the sink.

2) the porta potty.
dunno about you, but, in the morning, i wake up, make coffee, drink it and go to the bathroom. before, i was forced to wait until we found a bar with toilets, if we couldnt go in the grass (which is a pain in bad weather), and that could spoil my day.
now, i wake up relaxed and ready to...send.

[dave]

i dunno if this is useful but someone once told me that they met john dunne in el chorro in the 90s and he had a van, and under the (presumably plywood) floor had fitted soem kinda of hidden locking cabinet to keep valuable and climbing gear in out of sight and safe. might be worth thinking about.

[fatboySlimfast]

From the people i know that have got them couple of things stand out as must haves
High top-makes a massive difference when cooking(or pop top)
storage space-too little and its a real pain.
speed of vehicle-you know what its like to drive a slow van
You can buy van safes that bolt onto your vehicle! Also apparently velcro curtains are much better, stay put and you can take them off when travelling

[Idol eyes]

Use a hotel, or buy a flat bed and put a large shed on it...

[SA Chris]

i dunno if this is useful but someone once told me that they met john dunne in el chorro in the 90s and he had a van, and under the (presumably plywood) floor had fitted soem kinda of hidden locking cabinet to keep valuable and climbing gear in out of sight and safe. might be worth thinking about.

Good call. We used the access hatch to the battery compartment as a "safe" in the van we had in NZ. Beds folded up over it, and made it well hidden. Would have been easy to reinforce it and put a burly lock on it.

Are you planning on including Scotland in your travels Bonjoy? Let me know if you need some beta.

[Bonjoy]

 Scotland is certainly on the shortlist. Will be frantically fishing for beta nearer the date. Cheers

[Bubba]

no place like home van for sale on there, would be ideal!!!

I wouln't touch that van with a bargepole - it's ex Royal Mail for starters

[jfw]

nibile we don't have a portaloo, i'm slightly jealous but don't think there's room. we do have hideyholes for laptop and stuff.

yes to velcro curtain (much better than the original method of hanging our towels over bungee).

cooking from seat - don't miss having high-top/pop top in our particular van. our sink is really simple with a hand operated pump. the hobs aren't integral to the unit (just a two hob stove from decathlon) - so can be taken outside for cooking in nice weather - though involves a bit of jiggery pokery  moving the gas bottle and pipe (which does normally route through unit)

we don't have a fridge - just a big sturdy cool box - which also acts as a seat.

We didn't have any windows in the back to start with - but took out the front bulkhead - which let light in from the front and lets you climb over without getting out.

We've got double back doors - think there are some advantages to having a hatchback (anyway -  we don't have back windows but they're worth considering for ease of driving).

We do now have a side window on the non kitchen side - which is blacked out (although this lets in less light). In a black van you can actually hardly tell there is a window. Windows are nice but affect your security - and define whether your van looks like a camper or not.

Consider your auxilliary battery - where its going to go and how you're going to charge it. And the lights you want, where.

It would be nice to have a front seat that spun round to face backwards.

I think its ace fun doing your own van - but it takes time and effort, and ours evolved fairly organically. Time and money constraints may make a ready made camper more attractive - but things like the auxiliary battery need asking about when you're buying.

[soapy]

this has everything!


..including cb..



ten four for a copy

[Bubba]

What's best for security? Well worth considering if you're going to be building it up in Sheffield, which is now considered the worst place in the UK for car crime.

Extra locks? Tracker? Blackjax? etc?

[Paul B]

Hey jon,
My advice is to stay clear of converted vans unless you know who did them or did it yourself, many people take shortcuts that are just downright daft, (not ventialting gas fridges, running wires through insulation without passing them through a fuse box first etc.) If you're going for a long time i guess headroom is an issue? converted vans are all fine and well when the weather is nice but if it rains for 3days on the trot its going to be grim. Some campers obviously come with high tops but they are a bit of a pain in the ass in terms of storage (will you keep it after?) the other options is the reimo style roofs that elevate in some manner.
As many of you know i run a 1972 westfalia vw camper, I wouldnt recommend this but being young and having no, no claims bonus it was about the only thing I could insure. Although the later models (T25's T3's) arent as good to look at they are seriously good vans with well designed interiors and better powered engines (you can get 4 litre 4 wheel drive if you so desire!), that allow you to do a sensible speed on the motorway, with your budget you'd be looking at a luxury vw in that range, the engines are fairly simple be it air cooled or watercooled and a basic knowledge of these engines + the relevant haynes manual will allow most people to sort common faults fairly effortlessly.
In terms of insurance my polciy allows 90 days abroad in one go as standard and cover interior contents up to 3,000 with no added precautions, i have seen people with a small safe welded beneath the bench seat as well. Not sure if customs would be to happy about the hidden hole under the floor idea!

[Bubba]

Just thinking on about security - I reckon a barrier deadlock might be the best solution. It physically locks the gearbox and pretty much means the only way they're getting your van is to tow it. See http://www.securityhelp.co.uk/vsi1/profile.htm

The police use these so they can leave their cars running and unattended, so they must work.

[SA Chris]

As I posted before, these are an object of desice for me, but possibly outside the budget

http://www.surfseeker.co.uk/index.html

[Bonjoy]

 How much is one of those going to set you back?

[Paul B]

a hell of a lot. The vw/ford/fiat pro conversions are 30,000 ish new.

[SA Chris]

I think they are there or thereabouts new.