[Houdini]

But of course you are aware that:  Certain defects are necessary for the existence of individuality.

And surely you have heard: I will listen to anyone's convictions, but pray keep your doubts to yourself. (J. W. von Goethe)

Q:  Have you no time for Sturm und Drang?

[soapy]

..none..

[Houdini]

A project of identification.  Origin to keep it simple.  We bend and break to this longing.  Outlive the state we live in.  Outlive the policy.  And there is nothing to kill for.  It's too simple to explain so we agree to disagree on origin.  We bend and break to this longing.  So count me in.  I wear the colours.  I'm all symbols.  Locked in symbols.  Count me in.  Let's do some damage.  Originate this.  Origin of this.  Nothing is new here.  It just got clear to us.  There is no place of departure.  The project of identification.  Origin keeps it simple.  We bend and break to this longing.  So count me in.  I wear the colours.  I'm all symbols.  Locked in symbols.  So count me in.  Let's do some damage.  Originate this.  Origin of this.

Barra Head - Origin. 

[soapy]

..pessimist poetry

[Houdini]

Symbolize this!

[Johnny Brown]

Barra head - on Bernaray, one of the best sea cliffs in Britain, and pretty undeveloped. What that has to do with poetry I don't know, hasn't been inhabited for 200 years, unless it was written by a miserable lighthouse keeper.

[Houdini]

Barra Head are a stunning Danish rock trio.  They really are very fine indeed. 

What you read are the lyrics to a song called Origin from their debut LP called Songs and Departures.  Which singlehandedly got me through 6 weeks of foul fabric work/culture shock one time in the UAE.

You really should check them out.  Not extreme as you would imagine with one of my tips.  They are the best live act I have been lucky to see in YEARS. 10/10.

www.playrec.dk  MP3s can be found here.

The 2nd LP We Are Your Numbers is also exceptional.  Pantontino should back me up on this who was begging for more when I lent the 2 CD's I own to him.

I posted it as Moreau is a symbolist (what Soaps posted.  RE "I'm all symbols.")  Kapeesh?

[Pantontino]

Houdi speaks the truth; dey is a cool band.

Yob's description of Barra Head (the crag) did fire me up for a visit. When I was on Mingulay with him and various other Llanberisites a few years ago we all stared wistfully across to this intriguing island and wondered what it was like on the other side.





The lack of fresh water sounds like a real bastard though.

JB, have you climbed there?

[Houdini]

Aye, Barra Head (the crag) sounds more neglected than the band.  Bet that rock's rough as fook to the touch.

(Song lyrics often appear tosh in print.  I know a few bands that refuse to write them up as they can appear trite on paper and can take a little away from the discovery of what someone is singing.  Have you ever read the lyrics to a song and felt somewhat letdown to know that what you though was is in fact not at all?)

[Johnny Brown]

Sadly not - went on a boat trip round Mingulay this summer which got me very excited about all these islands. Be good to get a big crew up there next year, need to befriend someone with a boat ideally...

[Houdini]

Zoe Brown?

[Falling Down]

On the subject of Barra and neglected masterpieces I give you Granville Bantock

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Granville_Bantock



His Hebridean Symphony is a wonderful piece of music...

[andy popp]

The perfect aural equivalent to the Casper David Friedrich paintings must be Schubert's Wintereisse - Winter Journey. A similarly dark and desolate portrayl of inescapable human alienation. And very beautiful. But, the images created by these works do disturb me somewhat. In youth at least, this way lies an egoism that can all to easily shade into narcissism, nihilism and justifications for destruction. They suggest a purity of living that is unattainable - and that too is a dangerous ideal.

Before anyone sends me to Pseuds' Corner or gives me -ve karma this is all by way of (a pretty poor) response to challenge laid down by Houdini. Besides, I don't think skinheads listen to Schubert that much.

To Falling Down, following the Bantock,for mad English classical, Havergal Brian's huge Gothic Symphony is unmissable

[soapy]

*changes tack 180º


will any of the 4 turner nominees be regarded as neglected masterpieces in a century's time?

[andy popp]

Fuck, that wasn't all meant to be in italics, only the title of the Schubert piece. Haven't seen this years Turner nominees but probably not. Did Rachel Whiteread win it once? Her work is good

[soapy]

she did, with house, a piece i used to pass everyday to and from work

[Houdini]

Sorry Andy, never sought-out and listened to Schubert so can't comment on Winterreisse.

The fact the Wagner hobnobbed with Nazis doesn't bother me one jot (but then, those foolish enough to not jump through the hoops '33 - '45 ended up dead. "Is that two lumps Adolf or are you sweet enough?  Naturlich mein Fuhrer!  I shall stir it very well indeed!")  It's beautiful stirring passionate music: that's the level I connect on.  Eric Gill dabbled in incest but that has never stopped me enjoying his sculpture.  The artist cannot be separated from the work.  Really?  I do it all the time.

Conceptual art:  I find it chronically lazy; it can often revolve around a "twist" as if a twist is all that's needed to make great art.  Once the twist has been recognised, I struggle to find deeper meaning and am left somewhat cold and often a little sorry for the 'artist'.

[andy popp]

The Wintereisse is absolutely to be sought out - heartbreaking and terrifying (I have a copy sung by Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau accompanied by Daniel Barenboim). Of course, the artist can (almost) always be separated from the art - and should be. And very obviously, neither Freidrich nor Schubert can be personally implicated in events happening many years later. But art can continue to run deep through cultures and societies and, most importantly, can in the most subtle ways act or help to legitimate ideologies. The afterlife of the art is far more powerful than the behaviour of the artist in his or her life. Besides it was you that brought up German romanticism and the rise of neo-fascism in the first place!!

Is Whiteread that conceptual? This looks like a piece of sculpture to me and one I like aesthetically. Agree with much of your sentiment on this though.

[Houdini]

Mr. Popp - I'm finding it desperate to disagree with you.

I've worked with proud and open fascists in East Germany.  They are somewhat confused people: I had one on the ropes one time - he professed to be a socialist (indeed he voted left) but then when pushed turned into a rabid fascist defensively using unemployment figures (which in East Germany are very high indeed) and the generosity of the German welfare state to non-indigenous Germans to defend his racism.  I saw very little in the way of ideology here, the usual gripes are lack of opportunities for the young.  My point is, I'm not convinced German romantic writers like Schiller and Goethe can realistically be implicated in the rise of neofascism.  Though I do accept your salient point vis-a-vis nihilism and romanticism.  Mea culpa.  It strikes me that fascism is born of good old fashioned fear and loathing and in the ex-DDR - a nation that have been shat on from the greatest of heights for half a century - something must ultimately break.  It's just a shame that what broke was their sanity and reason.

[andy popp]

And me etc. Cultural explanations can only supplement those from history (being shat on) and structures (unemployment) for such complex phenomena. But, not knowing Germany, I wonder, is there an element of fatalism to German culture? Certainly, at times in the past, some have found it possible to manufacture a sense of destiny. Anyway, we have had a bit of a debate. I'll try and think of some more genuine neglected masterpieces. And some crap books for Gruff's thread.

[andy popp]

'Nothing Can Stop Us' by Robert Wyatt. The plaintive cover of 'At Last I Am Free,' originally by some disco outfit (Chic maybe) is genuis.

[andy popp]

I'm on a roll. Dylan is obviously not neglected, but how about 'John Wesley Harding,' I love this strange little collection.

[Houdini]

I wonder, is there an element of fatalism to German culture?

I asked the fräulein.  She wondered, and said yes.

[andy popp]

That was a good guess then.

[andy popp]

Just got Metal Box on CD (it even came in a little replica of the box). Sounds almost better than I half remembered. What happened to Keith Levine - I just love his playing on this album?