[unclesomebody]

I am about to purchase a new(er) car and since it will be a VW tdi I was wondering about how to squeeze more juice out of it. I came accross many many devices that claim to add anything from 8-40bhp to the output via various simple plug and play devices. To anyone who knows anything about these things, quite simply, do they work? I have seen some things that I can very quickly rule out as being physically impossible of adding power. (think; Add this blue crystal of power into your ashtray and your car will instantly feel faster and more responsive!).

Can someone please help and find a way of adding more bhp to my car... Preferably in a cheap way. I don't want to waste a load of money on getting my ecu remapped.

thanks.

[Bubba]

Is it a PD engine?

If it is then it's piss easy to add lotsa BHP with a remap, which is *not* a waste of money.

If it's pre-PD then it's much harder.

There's no really decent cheap method of adding power I'm afraid.

[Bubba]

PS I'd ask the same question in the Diesel Car forums.

From what I've read, a lot of these tuning boxes just force your engine to run rich all the time.

[Paul B]

which vw Tdi are you getting? My friend has the tools to remap them himself, he did it with his 1.9 Tdi polo successfully, think it depends on the port in your car whether the same setup will work, remove said ash try of blue crystals and have a look at what you've got. Ill get in touch with him and find out how easy it was and if he still has the equipment.

[unclesomebody]

Thanks Bubba, I knew you'd know! It's probably going to be a 2002 Passat TDI 130 engine. So I'm guessing that is a PD engine. Thanks for the diesel car forum link. My only concern is wanting to do something that's not easily traceable for insurance reasons.  ie. Something easily removable would be a bonus.

[Bubba]

If it's a TDI 130 then it is almost certainly a PD engine.

I had a Golf PD 130 and the performance difference was really noticable. It was giving out near 180bhp.

A revo remap isn't really insurance traceable and can be reverted if necessary - you can also get a free trial.

[Houdini]

Nice one Unc'!  I wanna see you take that Passat past it's capabilities....    AND BEYOND!


Then get one of these for the rear window.


And one of these for the passenger seat.

[Sam]

Whats the deal with remapping for more fuel efficiency on a TDI 90 (non PD)?

[soapy]

forget the re-map, neons boss:

[unclesomebody]

Houdini, I'm all over it, don't you worry. Bitches in the back AND the front, plus one in the boot for doyle.

Bubba, what did you find the remap did for fuel efficiency? What were your before/after figures?

[Houdini]

Gonna get me Honda Civic instead! You gonna bolt some Asolo plastics on the roof so one of them beetches without breeches can ride it? 

[Bubba]

Bubba, what did you find the remap did for fuel efficiency? What were your before/after figures?

I can't remember figures but after the remap, fuel economy was slightly better, unless of course you're booting it, when it gets worse. It gave several mpg more on motorway runs, etc.

[Jim]

Hey Uncle, your looking at exactly the same sort of thing I am.
http://www.tyresmoke.net is a good forum which I'm using for VAG cars.
Revo is the way!
Since your after a PD130 TDi as well I'll have to set me sights a little higher with the 2.5 PD180 TDi Quattro

[unclesomebody]

Since your after a PD130 TDi as well I'll have to set me sights a little higher with the 2.5 PD180 TDi Quattro

you can set your sights as high as you like, but I'm sure the wife will bring them straight back down to earth!

I'm looking forward to getting 180bhp out this engine but at a cost of £500ish it's not cheap. It will be worth it just to burn you off Jim on our race from Manchester to Font. he he...

[Bubba]

Only cost me £400 at JBS - twas a couple of years ago mind.

[Jim]

Revo is only £400 Unc. But it in the budget of your car, thats what I'm doing (plus the sat nav, miltek exhaust etc...)
I'm sure the wife will spoil my fun tho

[unclesomebody]

Update; Bought myself the car, 2002 VW Passat 130 Sport. Jim seems to think it's already been re-mapped (I think this is because it killed his lexus in a race)... however, I think Jim will be along to announce his new purchase before too long. Needless to say it's bigger and better than mine. Now I just need those max power girls...

[Bubba]

If you take it to a Revo shop, they should be able to tell you if it's been remapped or not.

So what did you get Jim?

[Bubba]

Scrap that, just seen the other topic about your new motor.

[unclesomebody]

Update 2; I took it to JBS in Chesterfield over the weekend and after a long chat, a lot of haggling, and a good laugh, I decided to get it done there. It took them a fair while due to some unforeseen problems but in the end it's all good, and I'm running at something towards 180bhp. The car goes much better now, has a load more torque, but now that going faster is easier it will require a brake and suspension upgrade. It's a slippery slope...

[Jim]

a very expensive slope as well. better get an extra paper round young man

[AndiT]

It'll be clutch and gear box then too!

It's a very good bang per buck getting 50 BHP for less than 500, a tenner a horse is money well spent. Have you had a dyno-run yet, what is the torque running at now?

[unclesomebody]

I think torque is somewhere around 280ft/lb. However, next is a front mount intercooler, get the temps down, get the power up to 195ish.

[AndiT]

280 lb/ft is good. Have you been on the rolling road yet to get the power at the wheels? Intercooler is a  , it'll defo be running hot now, which will affect your compression, although I'd be surprised if you get an extra 15+bhp from that alone, but maybe, I'm no expert .

Have you spoken to anyone else who has uprated there TDI's to 195BHP, you will have to be careful as you are now running the engine at 50% more than what is was originally set up at which will have a big affect on all other parts of your car, I don't know anyone who has increased their cars performance by this much without having to upgrade many other parts too (cams/turbos/clutch etc). But I don't know much about the VW's so maybe the parts are already reisitant to this sort of upgrading, but I do know of Vauxhalls and Audi's which have gone bang after this sort of tweaking!

What is its engine capacity? 2.2, 2.5?

It sounds like you've got yourself an awesome project there, I'll look forward to checking it out next time you're over Staffs way, I've heard a lot from the diesel boys and would like to see one in action!

Andi

[unclesomebody]

I'm thinking that with another remap to take the intercooler into account it should get pushed up towards 190bhp. These intercoolers are making a big difference to the temperature, about a 40C drop. You are definitely right though... when you upgrade one part it's somewhat inevitable that other parts are going to need upgrading. The clutch will probably need uprated so when that gives up the ghost I'll do that. Cams and turbo will be fine for a lot more power than I'm aiming for. With a replacement turbo it's possible to get up to about 260bhp from these engines. However, I'm not planning on doing that.

Engine capacity is a monstrous 1.9! ha ha. You can have a drive next time I'm over (when that will be I have no idea!) Just name me some good boulder problems and i'll be down. Infact, I will stop by to do Mushin at some point in the next coupel of months.

[Bubba]

Isn't the intercooler quite a lot of money?

280ft lbs is more than an Impreza STi you know - you sure you really need more on a front wheel drive car?

Too much power and you're just going to be fighting wheelspin/torque steer all the time....

[AndiT]

 

Mine is just under 180bhp and front wheel drive. The V6 lump is heavy and helps keep it down, but I still wouldn't want much more from just the two wheels which is why I'm considering getting a Legacyinstead, despite loving my car! The torque steer is quite hefty in mine, so I imagine in a diesel it's gonna be even worse.

Still, it's good to take things to the limit, I'm sure Mike Reardon drives something like a front wheel drive tuned Skyline!

[unclesomebody]

Intercoolers are normally about £500-600 but I've found a company who manufacture them for about £100 each. They don't come with pipes and only come in generic sizes but are spot on in terms of quality. It's just a matter of sourcing pipes (which I've been finding out about) and fitting it yourself which is actually something I'm not massively keen on undertaking because I'm an amateur. Perhaps I'll have to coax someone who knows about cars (AndiT, dobbin, Bubba) into giving me a hand! 

I don't particularly want much more power, because even when it's slightly wet now I'm wheelspinning in 3rd gear. That's not too fun. Some better tyres should help a little but once again, at some serious cost.

[dobbin]

I wonder about the clutch upgrade too, generally to upgrade means to get bigger, for which the limiting factor will be the size of the bell housing. To replace the bellhousing will mean new transmission! I'm probably out of date with this info though.

I once looked into 4 pot calipers on a mk2 golf GTI. There was no need to be honest. I have fitted an oil cooler to a 205 GTI once, but never an additional intercooler. Where will it feed from? will you have to move things around the grille to get the air to it, or will you be installing somewhere theres a massive airduct? (get a roof scoop!)

[Bubba]

Yeah, if you're wheelspinning in 3rd then spend the money on tyres/shocks/brakes instead - there's only so much power/torque you're going to be able to use.

[unclesomebody]

Dobbin, see this;



Basically, the front pipe from the intercooler to turbo needs replacing with an intercooler. It mounts behind the bumper and sit quite low. Fancy giving it a go??? 

Bubba; You're right. i've been looking into uprated suspension, tyres, and brakes. It's all £££ but I think suspension will be next.

[AndiT]

Dude, you need to get yourself on a specialist forum and you'll get shed loads of advice and probably some good deals too. I got a set of 17's with almost brand new tyres for mine for £150 the other week and have also sourced loads of other info and kit. There's some real useful stuff out there.

I couldn't see your pic you posted as I'm at school (no pics allowed!), but I'm presuming you'll remove your present intercooler. Piping can be a right rip off, so keep a look out, you should get some for a few quid really. It shouldn't be  a big job provided you have the space to mount it.

[unclesomebody]

I'm all over the specialist forums as we speak. Got loads of info. However, when it all goes wrong I'll be calling you up andi! It is possible to leave the stock intercooler on aswell, but I'm not too sure on the pro's and con's of doing this.

Thanks for the advice. I'm looking for some 18's for mine (although I want to buy them at the same time as suspension otherwise it will look daft!).

[AndiT]

Again, beware.. The bigger you go, the more chance of getting warped wheels. I wouldn't go as far as 18's, but they do look cool.

[unclesomebody]

Thanks for the warning. But there are loads of people running 18's on Passat's, A4's, and even Octavia's so I think it should be alright. We'll see though. I'm not going to do it anytime soon because it's going to be an expensive upgrade.

[AndiT]

It'll defo be ok, but it's just something else to think about...

[Bubba]

I ran 18's on my Golf on pattern Audi A8 wheels - looked nice, but 18s will give you a much harsher ride. Don't lower too much or go for suspension that's too hard, it's just a pain in the arse in the end and on bumpy roads you'll end up having to go slower.

Recommend Goodyear Eagles for tyres - not too spenny and good wet/dry grip.

[Jim]

personally I'm sticking with 17" for comfort. 18" and 19" do look cool tho.
next I thinking I'm gonna get the rs4 uprated anti roll bars on mine, I think you need to do the same uncle if they are available for your car. they made a big difference on the lexus and maybe a strut brace as well.
big brake upgrade would be nice as well but I'm gonna need 18" wheels and a job that pays double my current salary  
where you looking at for the intercoolers btw unc?
can't wait to get a remap

2nd the goodyear eagle as well, I used the F1 GSD3's on the lexus and they were quality.