I think some of you are slightly misrepresenting exactly how ground breaking The Matrix was. I'm sure there are entire documentaries ...
Yes, I said it looked amazing. But ultimately, it remains amazing looking, technologically groundbreaking, but utter, utter codswallop.
Quote from: crzylgs on November 22, 2019, 12:20:43 pmI think some of you are slightly misrepresenting exactly how ground breaking The Matrix was. I'm sure there are entire documentaries ...Yes, I said it looked amazing. But ultimately, it remains amazing looking, technologically groundbreaking, but utter, utter codswallop. Great movies are made of considerably more than snazzy special effects. I give you North by Northwest, some stuff that was probably advanced for the time eg the cropduster scene, but basically it's a simple story with killer scriptwriting, great cinematography, great acting, humour and action, and will far outlive ephemeral lightshows. Sorry, I'll just get off my soapbox now...
Quote from: TobyD on November 22, 2019, 01:40:45 pmYes, I said it looked amazing. But ultimately, it remains amazing looking, technologically groundbreaking, but utter, utter codswallop. Would you put Star Wars in the same category “You can write this stuff George, but you sure can’t say it”. Isn’t all SciFi essentially ‘codswallop’ if you want to view it as such?
I won't watch ep. IV Star Wars as an adult (although I do go and see the new ones) 'cos it's sooo bad but I loved it so much as a kid I don't want to ruin the good memories. Empire Strikes Back though is badass.Good Sci-Fi = Solaris (Trakovski's), Silent Running , Ex-Machina, Close Encounters, Alien, 2001, Akira, Children of Men, Moon, District 9, Under the Skin, Arrival plus several more that I can't recall.
Quote from: teestub on November 22, 2019, 01:48:39 pmQuote from: TobyD on November 22, 2019, 01:40:45 pmYes, I said it looked amazing. But ultimately, it remains amazing looking, technologically groundbreaking, but utter, utter codswallop. Would you put Star Wars in the same category “You can write this stuff George, but you sure can’t say it”. Isn’t all SciFi essentially ‘codswallop’ if you want to view it as such?No, I wouldn't say so. First off, Star Wars has a very simple premise and story, and is essentially a very honest film. I'm not saying it's brilliant cinema, but it isn't mired in the pretension that I always felt plagues the matrix. The matrix has a distinct sense of thinking it's a lot more intelligent than it actually is. I love brainless sci fi, but not if it is trying desperately to be all profound and meaningful. Take Pacific Rim, massive robots fight massive radioactive dinosaurs, and nothing more. I absolutely loved it. It definitely makes absolutely no attempt to be meaningful, it's just massive ... you get the picture.
I like all of the movies you mention that I've seen, although I'd argue many of them barely quality as sci fi.
Quote from: TobyD on November 22, 2019, 11:08:25 pmI like all of the movies you mention that I've seen, although I'd argue many of them barely quality as sci fi.You can play this game with all sci-fi movies and literature though right, sci-fi just tells you about the setting but the content will generally fall into another genre: Star Wars is a military action film, The Matrix is a Kung Fu Jesus movie, Bladerunner is a noir crime film etc etc. Agree about Pacific Rim, so stylish and enjoyable!
Re never made films - I guess the "classic" modern example I would love to have seen was the script for Alien3 set on an artificial moon made of wood, populated by monks who have rejected all technology - with a final scene involving an attempt to trap the Alien in a field of burning corn on the outer surface, under the stars.
it isn't mired in the pretension that I always felt plagues the matrix. The matrix has a distinct sense of thinking it's a lot more intelligent than it actually is.
"Science fiction can be defined as that branch of literature which deals with the reaction of human beings to changes in science and technology."Isaac Asimov
Good Sci-Fi = Solaris (Trakovski's), Silent Running , Ex-Machina, Close Encounters, Alien, 2001, Akira, Children of Men, Moon, District 9, Under the Skin, Arrival plus several more that I can't recall.
The matrix has a distinct sense of thinking it's a lot more intelligent than it actually is.
I didn't write the script, I'd just like to have seen it! The abandoned script was much whispered about after the release of Alien 3, and a few years ago copies came to light along with the concept artwork. I really liked Alien 3 (Brian Glover versus the xenomorphs!) but the image of trails of burning corn on a tiny planet, alone among the stars, stuck with me, and has always had me dreaming of what might have been. Interestingly, William Gibson supposedly also wrote a couple of rejected scripts for Alien 3.
Interestingly, William Gibson supposedly also wrote a couple of rejected scripts for Alien 3.
Clearly it's something which is difficult to define, and has considerable overlap with dystopian fiction since sci fiction pretty much never paints a particularly positive view of the future. I read a great article recently which was saying something along the lines of it telling us about how we feel about our world and time, and what we are afraid of with an alternative reality.
I think SF as allegory is a great subject, I guess Starship Troopers may be the one where the most people missed the point, I certainly did!
I think SF as allegory is a great subject
Isn’t Star Wars just a Sci Fi version of the Magnificent Seven.
... The Drowned World on film. Especially if it had been done in the 70’s with Donald Pleasance, Donald Sutherland and that lot in it.