[r-man]

Congrat to all the strong girls and the... strong GIRLS! 

Don't get it. Are you being fooled by a yellow jacket?

Just take it as read.

[Bonjoy]

what are you talking about?

[r-man]

          

Female Senior    Qualifier    Final
Overall    First Name    Last Name    Score    Bonus    Position    Top    Attempts    Bonus    Attempts    Position
1         Stewart    Watson    94    10    2    =    5    9    5    5    1    
2         Dave    Barrans    94    10    2    =    4    6    4    5    2    

 

[fatdoc]

i'm no strong boy...

are you guys suggesting some kinda board like the last incarnation of the Office.. that had the *ten commandmants* problem on it??

If so, yep!! i'd be keen for that sort of thing.. damn hard for me but that's good ( i reckon )

havin said that, there's no way the wall in it's first incarnation would be perfect for all user groups, as has been said above; this is no critisim of the best facility in europe if not the world; i just wonna see it become the definitive place to train anywhere. 30 degrees is fine for me: that's what most of us usually climb on after all.

respect to PaulB for making the constructive comments.. let's help this place be the world class venue it deserves to be.

[dobbin]

Just to stick my two penneth in - Paul I agree also.

[saltbeef]

went to the works yesterday, what a great place. the comp wall is awesome. a few more problems on there please! campus board fantastic. training board. hmmmm as paul and dobbin and doyle say, it needs bad holds. lots of them everywhere. if its gonna be labelled a training board thats what you need. people climbing 6b have more than enough to be getting on with elsewhere. as you point out there is a minority who climb hard, but i'd argue the base level in sheff is pretty high, hence the need for small holds and nasty pinches. and yes basically the school, and the office rather than the edge woody should be the style your looking for. sorry for rambling on. did i mention the training wall needed lots of small wooden holds.

[Doylo]

i just wonna see it become the definitive place to train anywhere.

respect to PaulB for making the constructive comments.. let's help this place be the world class venue it deserves to be.

completely agree but as Saltbeef says theres a lot of strongboys in sheff who i'm sure would love to pull down at the works (being such a fantastic venue). I wasn't just talking for myself in my last post. Everyone wants this place to succeed.

[r-man]

And there are lots of people who would like to get strong. Loads of people are at purple problem standard - many of these people use the campus board, and I'm sure would also be keen to use a training board to improve.

I haven't really seen many people on the training board yet - possibly because there's so much else to play at. But I suspect that were it more basic, more people would use it. And let's face it - it's a training board, it's only going to attract people who want to train in this specific style (not the majority who come to do circuits) so if you can please them, it will be successful.

Some of the holds are really interesting though - maybe you could use these to make (more) funky problems on the comp wall?

[Johnny Brown]

I'm sure part of the problem is that the training wall is currently a blank canvas. Those who are used to training on a wooden board with fifteen years worth of pre-set Ben and Jerry problems aren't used to using their imaginations. They want to just turn up and test themselves against an established benchmark that involves maximum power and minimum skill. There is far more potential on this one board than at the school, but it will take a while to unlock. Some folk just want it all on a plate.

[Nigel]

I think that's the problem - who wants to climb anywhere where the problems haven't been set by Ben and Jerry? Its not even climbing if some other punter sets it. And you can't fucking talk, you only climb in the Peak where *every* problem is set by Ben and Jerry so pipe down.

[Paul B]

I'm sure part of the problem is that the training wall is currently a blank canvas. Those who are used to training on a wooden board with fifteen years worth of pre-set Ben and Jerry problems aren't used to using their imaginations. They want to just turn up and test themselves against an established benchmark that involves maximum power and minimum skill. There is far more potential on this one board than at the school, but it will take a while to unlock. Some folk just want it all on a plate.

I think your just plain wrong here. There are constant editions to the school guide by lots of different people, so much so that Dobbin is re-sorting the problem list, and these problems do get done so its not just a case lack of imagination. Your right that there's crap loads of potential, but not for basic hard training, to put it into context some of the smaller holds on that board are the sames as the smaller ones at the school, there's 20' differnce in angle between the two boards!

....that involves maximum power and minimum skill.

I am yet to find anything that translates better to hard limestone than basic board climbing (some people do actually prefer this to grit weirdness). Didn't 'someone' famous once say something like "at the end of the day it comes down to how hard I can pull?"

[Ru]

Having only been there a few times now, I'm not an authority on the School, but I agree that there is something special about the 50 degree board in terms of getting strong. Firstly the holds are bad, so you have to pull very hard just to stay on - somthing that is rarely true of less steep boards. Second the holds are all edges or pinches or both - moves often involve hitting a hold, then either pinching very hard to stay on, or catching openhanded then adjusting to a semi crimp. This develops that open-hand/crimp crossover strength that's vital on lime, and very useful on grit. Next the board is so steep that your feet either cut (loading fingers even more, and developing tension) or you have to fight to keep them on (developing tension). Finally, the holds are basic, so that all you fingers load evenly.

[north_country_boy]

I think Ru's final point is very important......

Loading of the fingers evenly is important to avoid injury, after all training/climbing indoors is pointless if you are going to get injured easily (and how many times have you injured yourself training rather than out on the rock?)

Unfortunately hold manufacturers these days seem to prefer to replicate holds from outside rather than pure training holds....or make what are simply gash, 'funky' holds which I feel increase the chance of injury (i.e. uneven rippled crimps/poor textured finishes)....

Bring back simple, low texture training holds like the S7/pusher flat crimps/pinches, and Dobbin & Ian Fitzpatrick's legendary brown pinches/crimps!.....less chance of injury and improve contact strength due to smooth texture.......

Or then again, why not just give us Wood! 

[Paul B]

Bleaustone training stone are one of the few companies making these kind of holds.

[unclesomebody]

Having only been there a few times now, I'm not an authority on the School, but I agree that there is something special about the 50 degree board in terms of getting strong. Firstly the holds are bad, so you have to pull very hard just to stay on - somthing that is rarely true of less steep boards. Second the holds are all edges or pinches or both - moves often involve hitting a hold, then either pinching very hard to stay on, or catching openhanded then adjusting to a semi crimp. This develops that open-hand/crimp crossover strength that's vital on lime, and very useful on grit. Next the board is so steep that your feet either cut (loading fingers even more, and developing tension) or you have to fight to keep them on (developing tension). Finally, the holds are basic, so that all you fingers load evenly.

Which is PRECISELY what a training board should do.

A very good climber once told me that in the end, all climbing comes down to is being able to pull on something with your fingers, and stand on something. Therefore, if you can pull on smal bad holds and keep your feet on small shit holds then you will be able to do anything. wise man.

[north_country_boy]

Very true Paul, the pockets and jugs are good, but i'm not sure about the crimps, some of the concave tops of the crimps tend to load the fingers unevenly which you don't get on good old flat wooden crimps!

[Paul B]

Yeah i see what you mean...

But these are all great:



Although you cant beat bansiter and dowl for pinches.

Sam spoke to Ned, Myself and a few others last night about the board and was listening to what we all had to say which pretty much reflects what has been said above, however other people disagree, I believe someone last night said it was 'the best board' for them ever. He offered for us to have a go with him to sort it out which I would have taken him up on if I wasn't leaving on fri for christmas...

(sorry about how bad the spelling and the writing both were in my previous post)

[dave]

to find anything that translates better to hard limestone than basic board climbing (some people do actually prefer this to grit weirdness). Didn't 'someone' famous once say something like "at the end of the day it comes down to how hard I can pull?"

Thats got to be the one quote that seems to be taken way out of context more than any other. Either willfully or not.

I believe what ben moon was saying in the context of hard grit was that he had reached the stage where had nothing left to learn about "friction and the subtleties of climbing grit or sandstone or whatever", and that for him personally to progress to the next level it was just about developing more strength and power. I'm pretty sure he was NOT saying that all you need to do to climb hard is to be strong - I don't know why people always use this quote to substantiate such claims! I'm sure none of us are at stage where we have nothing left to learn about "friction and the subtleties of climbing grit or sandstone or whatever".

[SA Chris]

 At the other end of the scale the "friction and the subtleties of climbing grit or sandstone or whatever" are all that I rely on to get up stuff, as I am as weak as a lamb.

[north_country_boy]

At the other end of the scale the "friction and the subtleties of climbing grit or sandstone or whatever" are all that I rely on to get up stuff, as I am as weak as a lamb.

In which case theres plenty at the climbing works for you to do and hence the need for a training specific board to complament that!

[Falling Down]

Oldfella - You ought to ask Gav to post up on this thread to add a bit of history about the school to put this in some historical context.

When the school was built, IIRC, the angle for the 50 degree board was picked as a result of the angle of the Edgedale Road board which everyone realised was brilliant for body tension as per Ru's explanation below.

The holds on the other hand were simply created out of necessity rather than by design - those involved simply didn't have the resources or cash for lots of bolt ons and wood was/is always better on the skin.  Gav Ellis, Nic Sellars, Stuey Cameron, Andy Coish, Paul Hydes and a host of others sat up there for a few days making holds from bannister and dowel.  Not Ben and Jerry, they linked what was there and created a lot of the problems later over a number of years.   If I recall correctly, it took a good year for the top boys to figure out the 'knack' on the 50 degree board...

(There are also loads of 'good' holds on the school board otherwise I would have never been able to climb there....)

I'm not really sure where I'm going with this except to illustrate that there was more 'accident' than 'design' in the way the school board was put together and I think it would have turned out quite different had the original collective had access to more resources (we wouldn't have sat around for days making wooden holds) and the (questionable in this case) benefit of hindsight.

I've not had the chance to go to the climbing works yet so I'm not making any comparisons... just thought I'd add my rambling two penneth..

[Doylo]

I'm sure part of the problem is that the training wall is currently a blank canvas. Those who are used to training on a wooden board with fifteen years worth of pre-set Ben and Jerry problems aren't used to using their imaginations. They want to just turn up and test themselves against an established benchmark that involves maximum power and minimum skill. There is far more potential on this one board than at the school, but it will take a while to unlock. Some folk just want it all on a plate.

Some folk may struggle cos its currently a blank canvas but this isn't the case for those of us who train a lot. In the school or the den (my board in wales) i mostly train on my own problems, in fact its easy to make up new problems cos these boards are mint. Its good that Sam has been asking around for peoples opinions on the board. Hopefully a happy medium can be found where everyone is happy.

[Fiend]

Just like to add my voice and agree with the idea of simple training holds on the training board. I'm unlikely to use it but I think the principle of simple holds is sound.

As I said before I'd like to see a bit more "pulling" problems to match up with the technical weirdness, and it looked like the comp wall had a few of those so that's good.

[r-man]

As I said before I'd like to see a bit more "pulling" problems to match up with the technical weirdness, and it looked like the comp wall had a few of those so that's good.

What with the addition of the new pink/orange/tomato-sauce-with-cheese-in circuit, there are now quite a few decent pulling problems on the twenty degree section, left of the training board. The oranges are a good circuit as well, with some really nice fat/phat edges and slopers.

And of course there's all the stuff on the comp wall. It just keeps getting better! Christmas has come early, and the grotto just keeps on giving...

[Fiend]

Yeah the new gently overhanging bit looked good, didn't get that far, was checking out the oranges which is a nice circuit.