[soapy]

that looks pretty good, but will there be some amenable slabs for my one armed, e.b. shod bumbling?

[Dude]

Question:

What is the reasoning / expectations behind this bouldering centre given that Sheffield has two excellent and one decent bouldering walls in the city, 3 more good bouldering walls within an hours drive, and the Peak District on the doorstep??

I respect the people involved, particularly Percy for his Edge route setting, but I'm wondering how this is going to work and be successful given the choices already available??

I live a 5 min walk from the matrix, and a five min drive to the matrix or foundry, but I for one would go if its as good as it looks. Its only another 5 mins up the road form the edge. Particularly if they have a year card at a reasonable price.

[dave]

Lets face it the Matrix is not an amazing wall, smells, is very sweaty and the prob setting is poor, the only plus point being the price. The Edge is too expensive for what you get, it gets too crowded, you often feel like you are going to land on people/ be landed on  and lets face it the wall is very average, only worth going to because of Percy's excellent setting (which will soon be gone). The Foundry is a good bouldering wall, but not to all tastes, is on the wrong side of town and doesn't get re-set often enough.

In fairness the quality of the problem set in the matrix over the last year has increased by about 400%, and with it all being all bleaustone its got superb holds. i hate to admit it but steve and scouse have set some good uns. I went for my once-every-three-year visit to the foundry yesterday and the problems there weren't tangiably better than the matrix, although there are mor harder problems. I do like the matrix, but its not really a wall to get strong as, its a wall to go to with the strength you alreayd have and have a fun evening.

I havent been to the Edge in years now simply because it too cramped, and I object to paying full wack to use only 10% of the facilities. I used to like it when i could go in the daytime when it was empty.

[Paul B]

To be fair the foundry has a poor set of problems on the wave at the moment probably due to all the effort being directed at the new board. The matrix has got slightly better for problems but as for the holds: bleaustone holds with that heat just make it horrendous.
I live right smack bang next to the foundry and i'd definately travel across town if its a worthwile venue. Since the demise of the woodie there has been a bit of a void in terms of somewhere to train, neither the edge or the foundry had anything vaguely similar, the new wall looks like its going to offer volume climbing/circuits as well as training which no other wall in sheffield has the facility to do.

[andy_e]

Is there coing to be a stupidly large roof section? I love roof sections...

[GraemeA]

Question:

What is the reasoning / expectations behind this bouldering centre given that Sheffield has two excellent and one decent bouldering walls in the city, 3 more good bouldering walls within an hours drive, and the Peak District on the doorstep??

Damn, nobdoy told us there was any other walls in Sheffield. Thanks for the warning, we had better cancel the whole thing. Anyone want to buy 350 sheets of ply, do you a good price.

[Percy B]

The Climbing Works won't be like the Foundry, Edge, Matrix, Leeds wall, Manchester wall, Mile End, Ratho, or any other wall anybodies been too, because it will concentrate on providing only quality bouldering on a very large scale - something that has not been done in the UK yet. We reckon Sheffield is the ideal place for this type of wall as its accessible from all over the place without having to drive for much more than an hour. Sheffield is also full of boulderers who would like to climb for a fair price in a state of the art climbing wall that has been designed and built by climbers who have a huge ammount of expertise in modern climbing walls. Chuck into the equation friendly staff, and a nice atmosphere condusive to having a good time and improving your climbing rather than stagnating on infrequently changed, 'samey' problems and you might be onto a winner. And then again, you might not....


However, its a gamble we have decided to take, and we're all psyched out of our minds to make it work. I have become bored over the last 2 or 3 years of people saying to me that someone, someday will open a mega bouldering wall in Sheffield, so we've decided between the three of us to do it ourselves. It might work, it might not, but if we can't do it in the building we've got, then its a total non-starter! Back to my t-nutting now......only another 23,000 to go.....

[Jim]

Chuck into the equation friendly staff, and a nice atmosphere

make sure you don't employ dense then 

[Bonjoy]

Lets face it the Matrix is not an amazing wall, smells, is very sweaty and the prob setting is poor, the only plus point being the price. The Edge is too expensive for what you get, it gets too crowded, you often feel like you are going to land on people/ be landed on  and lets face it the wall is very average, only worth going to because of Percy's excellent setting (which will soon be gone). The Foundry is a good bouldering wall, but not to all tastes, is on the wrong side of town and doesn't get re-set often enough.

In fairness the quality of the problem set in the matrix over the last year has increased by about 400%, and with it all being all bleaustone its got superb holds. i hate to admit it but steve and scouse have set some good uns. I went for my once-every-three-year visit to the foundry yesterday and the problems there weren't tangiably better than the matrix, although there are mor harder problems. I do like the matrix, but its not really a wall to get strong as, its a wall to go to with the strength you alreayd have and have a fun evening.

I havent been to the Edge in years now simply because it too cramped, and I object to paying full wack to use only 10% of the facilities. I used to like it when i could go in the daytime when it was empty.

 I'd just like to point out that I haven't been to the Matrix since Steve and Scouse have been setting, so my perhaps over-hastey appraisal may well be out of date.

[Houdini]

I'm not a great fan of plastic but I'd pay a premium to get into any new wall that could guarantee me plenty of bouldering space away from groups. 

(The Beacon in N. Wales is a 100% classic example of the experience being ruined (time after time) by children in oversized boots/helmets & harnesses/figure 8's climbing above you around you & moving under you when you're climbing.  No-one wants to fall & break a kid.  Nevermind the leaky roof after how many years?!) 

It's all bouldering but you will be taking groups I read. 

Solution:  No fucking jugs.  Harsh, but I payed to get in.

[Percy B]

The group problem is easily sorted. You set your wall up in an old factory that is so big that you can't see from one end to the other. Then you put your kids boulders at one end (covered in jugs, etc) and your training board at the other end. Put a large section of wall in between and the problem is sorted. I trust Mr Houdini that we will see you at the training end, and not a 'secteur initiation' so there shouldn't be a problem (and the kids won't be able to hear everybody swearing when they fall off their projects)!

[Houdini]

Nice.  I got no sense/didn't see the scale of the plan from the drawings.  It's commercial suicide to ignore group geld, but I'm amazed more kids don't get squished in walls.


You'll see me in the training end but only if you make the world hardest/thinnest slab.  One slab, one problem.  Such an obvious thing but you never see it.

[Percy B]

10,050 square feet of floor area - I think we should be able to accomodate most folks and angles!

[Johnny Brown]

heard a good joke yesterday...

Q. What did Phil (edge owner) give Percy as a leaving present?

A. His customers!

genius. If you need anyone to set some slab problems you know who to call...

[squeek]

If you need anyone to set some slab problems you know who to call...

Nik at work?

[Fiend]

GraemeA: Thanks for that exceptionally helpful reply. I presume you'll be employed as customer services or perhaps the friendly reception staff??


JB:

Q. What did Phil (edge owner) give Percy as a leaving present?

A. His customers!

ROFL!!

Quite possibly his staff too, if there are any vacancies at the new bouldering magnopolis.

[Fiend]

Bonjoy & Percy: Thanks for your replies.

I do agree with your points about the Sheffield walls, BJ. I rate the Edge for the problems but also the "relevant" angles. But as you say it gets crowded. I also rate the Foundry, more for the simplicity and strength aspects to the problems, also it's a bit more open - and the new bit looks great. But, it's even more expensive. The Matrix, I loathe it utterly. Annoyingly humid sweat-fest with absolutely filthy holds, too many feature walls, shit holds when they aren't the bleaustone ones on, and in the past "average" routesetting. Yes it's cheap but you get what you pay for or a lot less in this case. Maybe as Dave says the routesetting has improved but the other issues were the worst.

Nevertheless all these places are very popular it seems. Although maybe one could say "well that's because they are all that's available and with a better venue people would flock there".

Percy, I appreciate your points, and I'm sure it will be good. Will it be enough? As you say it's a gamble. I hope it will. I will certainly be visiting it regularly.

One thing though: Please don't put lots of bloody featured boards on!!

[tommytwotone]

I'm resisting my natural urge to perform some sort of cost / benefit calculation or return on investment thang here, but I'm curious about the key factor here - any ideas on price of admission Percy?

Reading the above, the main gripe with the Foundry / Edge seems to be price compared to what the punters are getting - assuming you're going to be undercutting on admission fees as well as providing an amazing venue?

Also, what's the crack with public liability if you're a bouldering-only venue, is it cheaper? That's gotta be a help to your business case if nothing else.

All of these will be moot for me though as I'm a Mile End regular, though I may have to swing by this new mecca if when I'm next in Sheff...

[mowern]

Still can't access the website though.....  

[Bonjoy]

 TTT - I'd be happy to pay the usual wall fee, or a little more if the wall is as good as this promises to be.
 Fiend - Featured walls can be good, but usually aren't. The wave at the foundry is a good example of getting it right. The usual problem with featured walls is that there are too many holds, this limits the variability of probs that can be set and introduces too much scope for rests positions and faggotry. For instance the wall right of the jamming crack at the Edge has a knee bar which takes all the weight off your arms, therefore any problem going up that bit allowing features for feet has a mid-height rest, very limiting. The only way round this being to specify the problem doesn't use features, which negates the (costly) feature element of that bit of wall. On the other hand the wave has just enough poor feature footholds (which are generally too poor to use as handholds anyway, therefore reducing the level of contrivance i.e holds which are allowed for feet but not hands) to allow different sequences to be used according to size/strength/technique, in the same way that random poor footholds do out on the crag. So the features add depth to the problems, reduce the number of bolt-ons needed per prob, but are so minimalist that you don't need to specify that they or used or not used for any given problem. If the balance is right you can also get extra mileage out of the problem by doing it with feature footholds only.
 I think you need a to have put a good deal of thought into the design of a feature wall compared to a panel and make damn sure the builders stick to it. Most feature walls look as if the basic shape has been dictated by the designer but the holds have been left to the imagination of the builders, who are probably whacked out of their mind-tanks on resin fumes. Features-wise good = small poor footers especially around the bottom of the wall, perfect slopers (these are often done better as features than bolt ons), the odd super-hard stand alone line/project which is suitably hard/tiny holded that it does not dominate that bit of wall; bad = pockets, ledges, jugs, good pinchs (poor ones ok), cracks (fun once but get in the way after that), flakes, skulls (mile end!) or other novelty things, kneebars (much as it pains me to say it).

[tommytwotone]

....bad = pockets, ledges, jugs, good pinchs (poor ones ok), cracks (fun once but get in the way after that), flakes, skulls (mile end!)...

Aye, with the exception of the slabs, see Mile End's numerous deserted features panels for a good list of "features to be avoided"!

Take your point here BJ - Wirkworth's guilty of the same sin, too many features so problems are / were (last time I was there anyway) usually difficult to make *that* hard.

[squeek]

I think large volumes on simple panels are the best as you can make all the features you want, knee bars, cracks, aretes, small ledgegs for mantles, but you have the option to take them off when you reset.  With resin it's a permenant feature, which can get boring because with, for example, a crack, it's the same crack everytime you go.  But with volumes every crack that's set is different (and I'm very experienced at avoiding every one they set at BoulderUK).

[cofe]

the probs are good at the matrix. its just too hot to appreciate them. likewise the bleaustone holds. quite looking forward to using them properly on the new foundry board and hopefully percy et al's wall later this winter.

[account_inactive]

Wow, it would seem that Cofe, Dave and Scouse know the guys at Bleaustone 

[r-man]

Fiend - Featured walls can be good, but usually aren't. The wave at the foundry is a good example of getting it right.

Features shmeatures. Like you say, they usually don't work. Even at the foundry, they are a bit irritating - most of the problems are clearly a lot easier for the regulars whose feet automatically locate those unobvious little dimples. Most frustrating. I'd rather lose energy trying a move than getting pumped searching for a foothold.

What I'd love to see is something more along the lines of BoulderUK - by far the best bouldering wall I've ever been to. The lack of features mean the problems are more varied than anywhere else. And the ease with which the volumes can be shifted around means routesetters can be really inventive.

True its nothing like outdoors climbing (and why does it have to be?), but its lots of fun, which is what indoors should be about, and it gets you strong. Would be great to see this sort of problem on the circuits section.