[moose]

Isn't there also some 360 action on Rampage?  At a big low limestone-esque roof Sharma spins and leads with his feet around the lip (also doing a funky bit of hands-off resting).

[andy_e]

Indeed there is, that crazy leg jam thing...

[a dense loner]

do most other people realise that a 360 is made up of 2 180's, not just 1. the 2 180's must also go in the same plane

[jamesprice]

I think they know what they mean

[(woz)]

I think this one illustrates the point http://bleau.info/isatis/549.html (2nd vid down from the top) (it's actually a 180, and then reverse 180)

[SA Chris]

do most other people realise that a 360 is made up of 2 180's, not just 1. the 2 180's must also go in the same plane

I don't understand, it's all too compilcated, please explain.

And what's that about getting in a plane?

[dobbin]

He means that to spin and put ones feet where ones hands where would be a 180 not a 360. I dont get the planes thing either.

[Jim]

maybe one of those big tin birds I keep seeing overhead but can't see how its connected with climbing or 360's

[Fiend]

"I ain't getting on no plane, foo!"

[JR]

the 2 180's must also go in the same plane

i know what you mean "not so dense after all"...

[Nigel]

It is easy to see what our good man 'High Mass to Volume Ratio' means (although he has been less precise than he thinks). That is, if you spin your feet above your hands that's a 180, and to complete the 360 you are required to do another 180 in the same direction of rotation. If you go back again the same way you have done a, erm, 0 I suppose!

He said the same plane, which is also true, as you could can of doing a "vertical" 180 a la the toe-hook beta on that Font double dyno, followed by a "horizontal" 180 i.e. from facing the rock to facing out. Since these would be in perpendicular planes, you have not done a true 360. Indeed, if you did end up doing these contortions in consecutive moves I don't know what you would call it? Probably a transformation 

[JR]

Probably a joint dislocation

[Ru]

Dense means that you've got to go 360 round in one direction, not 180, then 180 back the same way. It's a valid point.

[jamesprice]

Dense means that you've got to go 360 round in one direction, not 180, then 180 back the same way. It's a valid point.

So does that mean, Pu, that if I do a 180 anti-clockwise (on a horizontal plane), but then do the other 180 clockwise, I haven't actually done a 360, notwithstanding that the latter was also executed on a horizontal plane. Holyshit batman, my brain hurts.

[JR]

no, youve done a 180 and reversed it.  Although you've actually moved over a modulus of 360 degrees the overall resultant amount of movement is zero; you haven't actually moved anywhere relative to your origin.

180 degrees - 180 degrees = 0 degrees

 

actually although both Ru and Dense are correct they have quoted the two equally valid but different things, perhaps unwittingly!?

Ru is correct you cant claim a 360 for doing a 180 clockwise then a 180 anti clockwise, the simple concept.

Dense's means that you cant do 180 horizontally and then do 180 degrees vertically (a bizarre concept but possible i guess) and claim a 360.  He should have said that both 180s must be in the same direction and plane to be 360.  I suspect dense meant what Ru said, but i don't ever underestimate what goes on in that man's head.

Confused now?

[jamesprice]

no, youve done a 180 and reversed it.  Although you've actually moved over a modulus of 360 degrees the overall resultant amount of movement is zero; you haven't actually moved anywhere.   

180 degrees - 180 degrees = 0 degrees

 

I have moved the exactly the same distance (about 6ft) as I would have moved had I executed the second 360 movement in an anti-clockwise direction (just like the first movement). I just spun rightwards instead of leftwards. Still 360. And go easy on the -ve Karma, I'm just confused 

[JR]

Ok, what you qouted is the modulus, the absolute value.

If i travel four miles from my house and travel four miles back to my house, how far from my house am I?  0 miles

If i travel four miles from my house and then another four miles from my house, how far from my house am I?  8 miles

Its the same principle but just in different form.  Everything in the world dense initially described needs to have two components, direction and distance.

Its equal to the critical difference between speed and velocity.  Probably the most important basic physics concept.

completely

[Ru]

I suspect dense meant what Ru said, but i don't ever underestimate what goes on in that man's head.

I presumed that when Dense said 'plane' he meant 'direction', even though I'm aware they mean different things. If you start climbing a flat surface in the conventional manner (feet towards the floor, facing the surface) and spin 180 in two orthogonal planes you would end up upside down and facing out.

[r-man]

What a lot of nonsense everyone is talking. Brilliant, I'll join in!

no, youve done a 180 and reversed it.  Although you've actually moved over a modulus of 360 degrees the overall resultant amount of movement is zero; you haven't actually moved anywhere relative to your origin.

I think you'll find that doing a 360 entails a net rotation of precisely nothing. You're back in the same place you started. That's the whole point. And yes, I realise you're trying to say you've just gone back on yourself, but wouldn't it be easier if you used simpler words...



Now a 360 in the vertical plane - that would be wierd. Maybe in some awful hanging crack offwidth thing?

p.s. The problem does look good. I for one would love to see the video...

[Carnage]

Now a 360 in the vertical plane - that would be wierd. Maybe in some awful hanging crack offwidth thing?

Not sure about full 360 but they do seem to do these 180 'kick through' moves on offwidths in the States. I remember seeing a pic of this guy on a route 'Belly Full of Badberries', upside down climbing it feet first.

We have loads of routes here requiring a 180 turn and feet-first exits, this one ,Chaos & Disorder, being one of the best:

 

[r-man]

There's some tiny roof in Portland that I tried a few weeks ago. Supposed to be one of the best V6s or 7s on the boulderfield. I struggled and eventually gave up, deciding it was bloody hard for the grade. Only later I found out the trick was to start feet first. Damn. It feels like losing at cards to a cheater.

[Houdini]

Its equal to the critical difference between speed and velocity.  Probably the most important basic physics concept.

After Gravity, JR!

[SA Chris]

When I said

I don't understand, it's all too compilcated, please explain.

And what's that about getting in a plane?

I was joking, as I thought it was pretty obvious.

I understood exactly what Dense meant, pretty much what Ru has said above. I've spent enough time in a terrain park to understand these concepts. Never meant to spark a hot debate.

[SA Chris]

Now a 360 in the vertical plane - that would be wierd. Maybe in some awful hanging crack offwidth thing?

Ray's Roof? Although its not totally vertical, I think it's in one plane.

[JR]

Its equal to the critical difference between speed and velocity.  Probably the most important basic physics concept.

After Gravity, JR!

Bit chicken and egg that tho!  You wouldn't understand gravity without vectors though I guess you wouldnt be here to understand either without gravity.   Anyway, Newton, bit of a wad for "discovering" both things in question.

Back to the topic...