[lorentz]

Sorry if this thread has been done to death in the past - I can't use the search function on my blackberry. Was going to post this on UKC but thought I'd ask here first. Is anyone on UKB involved in IRATA and can they recommend any good instructors/level 1 courses - preferably (but not solely) dahn sarf? Trying to get the Safety Officer/dept at work  to fund the training for specialised rigging purposes - so just looking into it at the moment. Had a look on the IRATA website and seen that there are a whole load of instructors out there. Anyone got any recommendations or roped access related info?

Also does anyone know whether there's any work out there for Grade 1 trained operatives? (I don't have any specialised engineering training, but wondering about the implications for getting my hours up/moonlighting doing some manual-labour type roped access work on the side.) Cheers.

[Johnny Brown]

I do Irata training for Lyon eqmt, ATS and, occasionally, Mark Wright. All will get you a decent course but Mark's is probably the best and has the best manual (ATS almost identical). Expect to pay about £650. In london the best bet is probably the courses run at the castle, organised by Dave Towse of N.wales based Dragon. I don't know the trainer but there is a random factor with them all especially during the summer when folk are on holiday.
Rigging isn't covered in much depth at level 1. What kind of rigging are you doing?

[Houdini]

Don't do it.

[Monolith]

some of the roped access work in plastics factories et al. is truly glamorous though houdini

[lorentz]

Cheers JB. Was having a look at Mark's website tonite actually. Runs it out of the foundry doesn't he? Is a decent handbook a major selling point? Useful point of reference once you're working I guess. Basically hoping to acquire the skills for rigging specialist TV equipment at height/otherwise inaccessible places. Often working in sport stadia, on roofs (? rooves? rooftops?) Recently had a working at heights course at work and they were horrified by some of our routine working practices, so as a climber I'm keen to get in on the action of doing things in a safer way, and if I can get IRATA training paid for out of the work safety budget, then so much the better! Obviously am keen to get my skills up to scratch quickly. But obviously takes at least a year and getting a fair few hours racked up before you can get the level 2 and operate in an unsupervised capacity (got a mate from work who's just got his level one so would have a partner  once we're both level 2) Hence I would need to work outside of my current job (in whatever unglamorous capacity that may entail!) before I could get the neccesary qualifications to be allowed to use it in the 'day job'.

Am I to understand that you're connected to the field in some capacity Mr. Houdini? Understand (from a previous post) that you work a lot in footy stadiums a lot - is that in a roped access a capacity? Any pointers? Is there work to be had out there? The impression o get off the IRATA website is that it's worth making sure that you've got work lined up before shelling out on the course. Not worried too much about the earning side so much as the gaining of experience and hours (have a lot of days off during the week in my job especially in quiet winter periods so could, in theory, be moonlighting in the roped access stylee in the interim.) Appreciate your thoughts and pearls of wisdom, chaps. Ta.

[Houdini]

I think that if you are working at height and someone is prepared to pay for your course, then you've nothing to lose.  Though I wouldn't expect too much from it: it's up to you what you make of it, though I would say that getting your L1 is just the first of many pieces of paper you may need to chase.  Access has become intensly competetive. 

I've learned almost all of what I know, on the job.  If you are UK based then it is wise to have this training, though I've found it to be not as neccessary overseas.

I work fabric structures.  As far as access goes it's good clean work, if a little unimaginative.  I shouldn't complain really, as it's been good to me - and the feel of the wedge you're delivered after 3 months away, yes it's quite something.

However, if I was paid 1 pound an hour more, I'd dump access and work in a Kebab joint without a seconds thought.

[lorentz]

Cheers for the honest opinion, sah! Much appreciated. You're not the first person I've heard this sentiment from. Heard that the work can be shitty AND hard to come by. However, IF, I can get work to cough up the necessary green then - mid to long term - it could be an extremely useful skill to have in my line of work. It all hinges on being able to keep the hours up to gain the level 2 unsupervised status. Presumably I'll then need to keep getting the hours in to retain that status? Not sure how many hours a year I'd be able to achieve in my day job. Sounds a bit of a nightmare, like you say. Lots of boxes to get ticked, etc. Will have to consider the options and speak to relevant people at work re funding. Thanks again.

[Johnny Brown]

I don't know where you've got the idea level 2s can work unsupervised. Under IRATA guidelines all techs must work under the supervision of a level 3. However irata guidelines are not the law so feel free to ignore them, as long as you feel you could justify it in court...

It sounds like your firm might be better either trying to get a bespoke course, or train you up as level 1 and then hire a level 3 to supervise when neccessary. That would enable you to build up some proper hours too.

Mark use to run ATS, which is next to the foundry but unconnected. He now runs his own firm on a tower near the M1.

getting work is hard until you know a few folk in the industry, after that its easy, as most jobs are manned up by going through the numbers on your phone. Competetion has meant rates have not gone up for a long time, but there is plenty of work, especially if you are prepared to travel.
Failing that you could beg bonjoy to hire you as a mastic monkey...

[Bonjoy]

 Can't add much to what's already been said. Here's an honest list of pros and cons from my own experience (8 yrs on the ropes, 3 in the office).

Pros:

• You can take as much time off as you like
• Reasonable money for minimal training cost/time outlay
• Little stress/responsibity most of the time
• Keeps you fit (if you don't get leathered every night)
• You will probably end up working with fellow climbers and other interesting/decent sorts from time to time
• Now and again you'll end up working with fellow climbers and near a crag
• Occasionally you'll get to work on something amazing, London Eye, Big Ben, that sort of thing
• It's a good work option for travellers in countries such as Oz and New Zealand, being easy to pick up with UK IRATA and paying better than bar work or olive picking
• If you want to earn good money and take long stints off you can do some extra quals and go offshore. That's if you don't mind spending weeks at a time on a tiny lump of metal in the middle of the sea with nowt but a bunch of cheesewhips for company.

Cons:

• You will probably have not control over when you take said time off. Therefore all your mates will be at work.
• Money is poor to start with
• It can be hard to get a foot in the door, especially if you don't live near an access firm or don't know many people in the industry
• It knackers your body. Especially elbows, shoulders and back
• You will have to work all over the country, doing LOTS of driving. Often in cramped vans full of smokers, usually at 'death o'clock' in the morning
• You will have to sleep away in crappy BnBs all over the place. You will often end up sharing rooms with grotesque slobs with poor personal hygeine. You will become very well aquainted with the smell of their farts, dope smoke and the sound of their snoring
• Many access workers are not climbers, many are infact freaks of all kinds
• You will find it hard in the extreme not to get sucked into eating fry-ups for breakfast, pies for dinner and beer for tea
• Forget anything but the most sporadic of training. You'll be spending too much time in places without crags or walls and often be too goosed of an eve anyway
• You'll get cold and wet in winter, burnt and dehydrated in summer
• It's no job to be in as you get older, but it's easy to get stuck doing it anyway
• Hard to break out of, as you'll be used to reasonable money and have developed few transferable skills

 Think carefully before getting involved, there's not many climbers with the requisite good luck and self disipline to make it work for their climbing rather than against it.

[Houdini]

L3's with vertigo:  these are my favourite collegues.


It shouldn't be the case of course - but site work is fucking dangerous.  I strongly recommend not working in Arabia should you be offered it.  But the 1st time you have to climb to the top of a bamboo-scaffold, yes, that's special...

[Doylo]

For me the drivings been the worst part of it.

[lorentz]

Cheers chaps. Really appreciate all the insider information. It sounds bloody hard work in many respects, but not that different from my job. As an outside broadcast cameraman, I'm often away on the road and out in the elements. Knackering myself lugging heavy gear about and on my feet all day. Used to having a piss poor social life as most the sporting events we cover are at weekends. Used to my climbing taking a back seat when work kicks off in busy periods. Had 4 days off in June and doing Wimbledon at the mo which is a long stint of long days (but luckily local to  me.) Used to the shit diet of beer and curry on the road, and then having to get on the bike, in the board room and doing laps of the traverse wall in a bid to lose the work tyre. The chaps I work with are all sound blokes, but my housemates probably fit the access "type."

As I'm quite new in OBs (and earning not a lot) I was looking for another line of work and source of dollar that I could do in the quiet times - the four or five days off I sometimes get during the week in the winter footy/rugby seasons.

However, seeing as I'm seeing my girl about once a fortnight at the moment - I s'pose I've got to ask myself if I need to inflict any more of that ol' "rock'n'roll" lifestyle on myself and her? Suppose I'd have to limit myself to the more local work, but that's not an ideal way to get started off really...You have to go where the work is obviously. Hmmm. More thinking and further enquiries to be made methinks! Thanks again though for the lowdown.

[Johnny Brown]

Worth noting none of us who are whinging about travel live in london. I know a few guys who do and they don't have to travel. Probably 50% of the jobs I get offered are in the smoke. Or nigeria...

[Houdini]

Agree with JB here.

I do not drive (legally), and this has never stopped me getting to the job, be it in the UK, the Reich, or Turkey.

But then many people don't work weekends.  It's normal for me to say bye-bye see you in 4 months, dude.

[lorentz]

Cheers JB. If there is regular  work in london then that definitely puts a more positive spin on things. Will have to check out visa requirements for Nigeria though!

 I do drive (legally) and have got a car so getting to the work isn't so much the problem as adding more stress to a situation where I'm the 'absent boyfriend.' She's ok about it actually (probably glad to get rid of me fer a bit, truth be told) but I always feel a bit guilty... I sometimes get really pissed off paying 500+quid a month rent, when I might only be home for a week of it. Ah me... Life on the Road (cue 'The Littlist Hobo' theme song... "There's a voice,
 Keeps on caaalling me.
 Down the road.
 That's where ah'll always be... etc" It's not what I thought it would be when I was reading about Kerouac's Dean Moriarty though... Now where did I put that benzidrine?