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In or out of bounds on problems (Read 2661 times)

Dolly

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In or out of bounds on problems
May 14, 2003, 09:56:51 am
Question I have is , what is in or out on certain problems ?
On Blind Fig in the Rockfax guide it says once above the roof use only a certain pebble for feet
Same question re BlueBand about not using the penultimate pocket

It seems to me that this is a very artificial way of defining what are essentially non eliminate problems - not least because I could do BB if I used the "out of bounds" pocket ;)

What does anyone else think ?- and does it matter anyway

dave

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#1 In or out of bounds on problems
May 14, 2003, 10:07:08 am
I'm sure on Hard Grit Bentley is using all sorts of things for feet on BF.

I think some "out of bounds" thing make sense, like not using adjacent cracks on face problems, but i've never understood the logic of missing out that pocket (the really shit openhanded one?) on blueband, especially if you use it on powerband.

Bubba

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#2 In or out of bounds on problems
May 14, 2003, 10:37:06 am
Unless the problem is described as an eliminate, and barring the obvious (as Dave says, like adjacent cracks on a face prob.) I think it's stupid.

If a problem takes a line then anything should be in imho. Ok, there are some exceptions like for example, not using a big foot rail under a traverse or something, but when it gets down to the level of individual pebbles,  I think it's getting really contrived.

It's partly a problem of bouldering guides though. In the Yorkshire Rockfax (fine guide though it is), there are imho quite a few problems described that shouldn't really be there as they are just variations or eliminates - the one that springs to mind is the problem that is described immediately to the left of Trick Arete at Earl - daft.

dobbin

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#3 In or out of bounds on problems
May 14, 2003, 12:15:37 pm
Taking blueband as an example I think that last pocket on the drop down is only missed out as the sequence which most people use avoids it - I don't think you don't get the tick if you use it....

Harris would be the man to ask.

Pantontino

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#4 In or out of bounds on problems
May 14, 2003, 01:07:43 pm
The next Peak (and Yorkshire, as Bubba says) guide really does need to weed out all these bullshit rules. I don't mind 'Traverse the wall below the break', or 'The wall left of the crack' , or 'can be done as a harder eliminate if you avoid the large foot block on the left'.
but eliminating individual holds is strictly a game for locals and these type of problems should not make it into a guide.
Very occasionally an eliminate dyno, or classic historical eliminate justifies a description, but this rule should be bent sparingly.

Maybe an online topo is the best place for these sort of things, or maybe we should just do what we've always done; ask the shifty looking local if he's got any 'special' variations to show the visitors. He can then lead us casually (like lambs to the slaughter) around his desperate circuit of ego crushing test pieces.

I remember years ago being told that I hadn't done Powerband because my arms are long enough to reach across to the pocket on the pillar at the end (still pretty hard though), thus avoiding the crux drop down.

And then there's Jerry's Traverse at the Plantation, where you are supposed to avoid the finger jug on the left at the end. Obviously this is a great problem, but the finish should be described as a harder eliminate option.

I find it hard to get psyched about doing eliminates, because it feels like I'm wasting skin and power on something that doesn't really matter. Sure it can be fun messing about with a group of mates at a crag where you've done everything you can, but I'm always thinking about that 'pure line' just across the way that I haven't quite done yet.


Whatever happened to the 'line of least resistance' as a climbing concept?

Dolly

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#5 In or out of bounds on problems
May 14, 2003, 10:50:07 pm
Right thats it then - I've decided.

Off to do BB at the weekend now I've decided that its ridiculous not to use the pocket
I've got a feeling that Andy H would say the pocket is out ;)

Next time its cold (tomorrow night/December?) off to do BF without getting on to the handholds and jumping off because I wanted to use the "footholds" but was unsure if they were in

I think its a good point about guides "defining" problems which are essentially lines - which in the abscence of a book you'd probably just go and do - just like the old days

dobbin

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#6 In or out of bounds on problems
May 15, 2003, 07:42:19 am
Quote
ask the shifty looking local


I'm not shifty looking!  

Harris probably would exclude the pocket and he is shifty looking :wink: . I guess this proves your point. He's also very strong and rather good at climbing.

Simon, wasn't the 'path of least resistance' thing GCSE physics rather than climbing?

 

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