[The Sausage]

on the subject of jason's start; I get the impression from sperating the wheat from the chaff on this thread, that jason's start at 7c is non-eliminate, i.e. is essentially a sitter into the 7b-heel-toe-enabled commonsense version of seans? I think thats how i read it, but just want to check. word.

Don't really know exactly what-is-what, but I did Jason's start into original Sean's (i.e. no heel/toe), and that must be THE line to follow here. The move where you spin round though 180degrees to move your right foot from the good spike, and get your left on that polished dish is supreme. It was also my first 7c, so don't think it can be 7c+

[Andy Harris]

My understanding is:

original seans problem (by Mr Myles) had a footless start to LH crimp, although at the top it actually went out left to the small crimp. It's an eliminate crag and the footless start was an eliminate move. Many people found this 1st move the crux & hence 7c.

people didn't like the small crimp so started gastoning the funny pocket and chucking over to the jugs.

a few years later jason did a lower start under the roof which use all sorts of toe jiggery eliminating the footless move. whilst this was given 7c+ originally concensus was that it was easier than the original (as eliminated footless move) but still the same grade.

malc did an eliminate doing the footless move then pulling all the way to the high RH slopey crimp without matching the lip. not sure of the grade but must be 7c+ or so as it's a mighty pull.

more recently people have been using heel toes in the RH start hold that eliminate the footless move and is hence a grade easier, say 7b+

[Jaspersharpe]

The most logical non-eliminate way of doing the problem to me is just putting your right toe on the blocky spike thing for the whole problem rather than using a heel/toe. I think it's still probably easy 7C this way.

[cofe]

history aside, there's nothing like a bunch of rules to destroy ones motivation for a problem.

[The Sausage]

I think you have to think of them, not so much as rules, as stages in the evolution of climbing that piece of rock. The beauty is, you can choose how you do it, using any of the methods described above - however, whichever one you choose (and they're all brilliant sets of moves) has its own little piece of history attached. For me, the problem I did was the most inspiring way to climb that bit of rock - I don't care what it actually is, but I like the fact that it's a hybrid (of sorts) of something climbed by 2 of the peak's finest climbers.

[cofe]

prob agree that version makes most sense. will try and see pinch off first.

[monkey boy]

malc did an eliminate doing the footless move then pulling all the way to the high RH slopey crimp without matching the lip. not sure of the grade but must be 7c+ or so as it's a mighty pull.

This is the way i did it. I assumed that as seans is a campus start then it would make sense if the sit start was footless, its probably soft 7c+.

[Andy Harris]

Sorry, Malcs variant does the original higher start (not Jason's sit) with a footless move to the LH sloping crimp (as per original) just round the lip, LF in the polished dish then does a big pull all the way through to the high RH slopey crimp without matching the small positive crimp round the lip. The crux being that big pull. Not sure my left arm would ever be up to such a big pull.

[monkey boy]

Yeh that move is awesome! And your left arm can definately do that andy!

[Kingy]

Hi I thinking of going tomorrow night if anybody has a recent conditions report after the rain? Should get there by 6:45.

[dobbin]

Martin blummin Smith did superman2 yesterday, so it cant be too bad!

[monkey boy]

What for ted? It might be fucked tomorrow. Most wet today apart from hulk/superman.

[Kingy]

thanks for the update Dave, I was thinking of Moffatrocity mainly but I was also trying the Hulk last week, did the first move and want to try and nail the one to the sloper! I will probably warm up at Rubicon/ Tor, have a flail on the Hulk and then head back there for the 'hour of power' (or powered out more like!  )

[Kingy]

A lot of things dry tonight surprisingly. The only wet bits were the last RH crimp on Jericho Rd, the jug/ledge on Zippy's traverse and the starting holds of Sean's. I'm sure with sufficient keenness you could dry those holds with a towel and do even these problems. Good nick tonight.

[Kingy]

I lost my Black Diamond headtorch in the dusk - it may have slipped out of my pad on the walk-in. If anyone spots it in the undergrowth etc. please let me know! Cheers

[slackline]

I lost my Black Diamond headtorch in the dusk - it may have slipped out of my pad on the walk-in. If anyone spots it in the undergrowth etc. please let me know! Cheers

You're not having much luck keeping hold of things this past week are you!

[Kingy]

Drat it! These things happen I guess, excuse to go out and get a Sharples mega-torch!!

[Johnny Brown]

If you do, just remember sometimes things go pear-shaped - deal with it!

[Kingy]

I lost my Black Diamond headtorch in the dusk - it may have slipped out of my pad on the walk-in. If anyone spots it in the undergrowth etc. please let me know! Cheers

This has now been found. Nice one Dave!

[abarro81]

Sorry to drag up an old thread, but I got rather excited today when I thought I was finally strong enough to pull on the hulk.... until I went down the foundry and Stu said he thought I was cheating.

Jasper, the small crimps have always been there it's just your memory that's crap.

Are you allowed to use these crimps (instead of/as well as the superman hold) or are they 'out'?

Whilst we're at it, are heels banned on spiderman (a.k.a. gaston problem)?

[Ru]

I think the Hulk and Superman originally both eliminated the small crimps. I'm not sure if they're now used on Superman II though.

[Kingy]

Here is a photo from Keith's blog

http://blog.keithsharplesphotography.co.uk/blog/_archives/2009/5/29/4203378.html

I don't know which crimps are meant, I pulled on with the sidepull for LH and the broken remnant of the Superman hold for the RH I think

[Andy B]

As far as I am aware The Hulk, like Superman (II) is an eliminate. Pull on with high lefthand on pinch/ sidepull and right hand on the remains of the broken Superman hold. Then right hand to sloper in niche, left hand to big sloper, right hand match on crimp next to this, shuffle hands a bit, right hand to good gaston, left hand to finishing slot. Other holds and/or sequences are Brain Pollution. The non eliminate line on this piece of wall.

[Andy B]

I think the Hulk and Superman originally both eliminated the small crimps. I'm not sure if they're now used on Superman II though.

I thought the only difference between Superman and Superman II was the broken sidepull being replaced by the diagonal crimp.

[dobbin]

As far as I am aware The Hulk, like Superman (II) is an eliminate. Pull on with high lefthand on pinch/ sidepull and right hand on the remains of the broken Superman hold. Then right hand to sloper in niche, left hand to big sloper, right hand match on crimp next to this, shuffle hands a bit, right hand to good gaston, left hand to finishing slot. Other holds and/or sequences are Brain Pollution. The non eliminate line on this piece of wall.

My brain is polluted with images of your Buttocks.

(i think you are right on both brain pollution and superman 2)