[Teaboy]

I was in Northumberland at the weekend and it was depressing to see how quickly Bowden doors is eroding and was wondering what could be done about it. Even in the time since my last visit a number of problems have eroded massively especially Y front, Vienna, Childs Play, Poverty etc. etc. At least Kyloe in seems to be standing the test of time.

[dave]

think they've already been round and painted the knackered holds with some shit, think it was this year or last some time.

[Teaboy]

It doesn't seemed to have worked, the usual suspects are worn and still sandy so likely to erode further. I seem to remember a few years back someone putting some furniture restoration stuff on southern sandstone, anyone know if it worked?

[Steve Crowe]

Its in hand. The biggest problem however is folks climbing on the sandstone too soon after rain.

[Bonjoy]

I've notices the same on crumbly grit holds. If the hold is damp the grains seem to fall apart easier. I guess boulderers really ought to avoid areas of soft rock until they are dry.

[SA Chris]

I've always wondered why this is so. Forgive my blatant stupidity, but is this due to clays being the binding matrix between the sand grains? I guess clay gets weak when it's wet.

Please enlighten me, geologists.

But keep it simple.

[LongMonkey]

Very close SA Chris it's the silica/silicone binding the sand together. When it gets wet the bond weakens and things fall apart.

[tc]

I was climbing on Saxony sandstone a few years back and was impressed by the amount of official-looking signs telling you what to do and what not to do, where to camp, walk, smoke, breathe, how to scratch your bollocks, protect the routes, etc. etc. They are very good at signs over there. The only one that I really thought was good was the sign forbidding (yes, on pain of death or something) you to climb on the stuff in the wet. It was pissing down. No one was climbing. No one climbed the following day, either. Seemed to work.
I'm not arguing for signs (God forbid) but maybe a line or two in the guides would help. That and a mandatory death penalty for anyone caught using wire brushes.

[AndyR]

Very close SA Chris it's the silica/silicone binding the sand together. When it gets wet the bond weakens and things fall apart.

SAC is correct for grit (plus the calcite and hydrated iron oxides/hydroxides).
There ain't no silicones present in rocks AFAIK.

[SA Chris]

Cheers for the info guys.

Making it more clear what dos and donts are with a little sign at the fence would be good too, along with no badly set up topropes, no abseilers and no big groups.

[LongMonkey]

Cheers AndyR for keeping me on the right track. Wasn't sure if it was silica or silicone but that stuffs for sealing baths and windows! D'oh