[andy_e]

dunno why E4, it just seems a good number. so i'm thinking:
http://www.rockfax.com/databases/results_route.html?id=616
http://www.rockfax.com/databases/results_route.html?id=506
any other good ones? i'm goona be going for the onsight (if i get there)

[Johnny Brown]

One for cocktalk I think...  :roll:

[dave]

unlike cocktalk i'm not going to try and tell you something hard is easy in an attempt to make myself look good.....

the strangler is indeed soft touch, very good and safe but spacey (you're about 50ft up when you start) but you have got to stand on some unlikey smears, you quarry boys might not like it. there ain't no crimps.

I wouldn't have thought many would recomend old friends as a good soft/first E4.

Down to earth at bamford is very good and very soft for E4, good small cams protect. some people say its a good highball - personally i wouldn't relish falling off from the top (crux) onto the ground, bearing in mind the one lead fall i've seen from that route was head first.

banana wall at wharncliffe is an uttery piss E4 if you're not a midget.

I'm back at rivelin is soft touch provided you don't fall off the one hard move. it ain't that easy, but is all over quickly. just don't fall off.

if anyone tells you auto da fe is soft, ignore them.

moon walk is maybe soft, at least very safe.

wings of unreason is soft, just a confidence thing. safe.

slap and spittle at stanage is pretty soft, especially with a mat. still you need to be not climbing like a spaz, it ain't trivial. ditto for high flyer.

these are all excellent routes.

[jimbo]

Boggart left hand at burbage south. well easy for the grade !

[SA Chris]

What E2s & E3s have you done so far, to compare to these routes?

I dont think Old Friends is soft.

[grimer]

I wouldn't say Old Friends is soft either, nor, I imagine, would the people who have been carted off down to the car park with broken ankles. Does my memory serve me correct that this includes Jon Barton and Lucy Creamer by any chance? Personally, when I think of E4 on grit, the term 'soft touch' doesn't immediately spring to mind, and the best you can do is to get on a suitable one, ie, one where you won't hurt yourself, eg moonwalk, auto da fe, usurper, but they ain't easy.

Sorry about the other Andi E comments, Chris, I just thought the young lad was getting a hard time.

[SA Chris]

Nae bother Niall. He does get a hard time, but it is usually justified.

[Johnny Brown]

I think inciting buggery was a step too far though grimer  :roll:

Old Friends may not be soft but its not a hard one either, miles off E5.

[Bubba]

On grit, "soft touch" difficulty wise usually equals "more dangerous", simple as that.

E4 5c generally either means bold 5c or sustained 5c.

[dave]

some E4s are genuinley safeish AND physically easier though. for example the strangler gets E4 cos of thin smears and the fact its pretty spacey, but you got bomber gear at your feet and a massive fallout area underneath. down to earth at bamford really is like a misgrading, though maybe it used to be more scrittley, or would be E4 if you had no small cams. otherwise its safe as. banana wall is just a reach off an undercut, with gear by your hand. if you're short it may feel full-on E4, if you're tall more like E2, the top bit is easy though.

[Bubba]

Yeah, I was just generalising, but I'll shut up now

With all the recent guidebooks I'd have thought there's going to be less completely mis-graded routes about....and anyway, what's the point of doing something that's really an E3, just because it gets an incorrect grade in a guide? Deep down inside you'll just know you are a dirty, lowdown grade-whore

[grimer]

Deep down inside you'll just know you are a dirty, lowdown grade-whore

And what's wrong with that?

[Bubba]

And what's wrong with that?

Because inside you'll be wretched...

Picture it; you'll be down the pub proudly proclaiming to all your mates about how you've just done an E4...but there'll always be that niggling doubt in the back of your mind that over the other side of the room is somebody like Dense giving you a sneering look of contempt

[Bonjoy]

Tripping on Sunshine at Turning Stone is way overgraded at E4 6b, soft E2 is more like it.
Demon Rib at Black Rocks is soft and safe, hard start (spotter useful) then very good small wires protect moves to break, top bit is easy and protected.
Breadline get E4 in the book.
Those cracks either side of Billy Whizz are soft but won't be E4 in new guide i suspect.
 Oedipus is piss if you are tall enough to reach the jug from the ledge on the top/crux move.

[andy_e]

the strangler is indeed soft touch, very good and safe but spacey (you're about 50ft up when you start) but you have got to stand on some unlikey smears, you quarry boys might not like it. there ain't no crimps.

that's alright then

banana wall at wharncliffe is an uttery piss E4 if you're not a midget.

damn, i am

[Stubbs]

How's Jetrunner at Bamford? Looks reet good, but comments on rockfax make out that the difficulty of the route is based around how much you trust some small gear. Any thoughts?

[webbo]

i thought you were going for edge lane with the knotted rope. :roll:

andi if you were struggling with conan on mother cap which was graded e2 when it was a route,you might end up in deep shit even on the softest e4.

[dave]

jetrunner isn;t soft touch really but fairly middling. at the break before the crux theres a load of fair-lookin small cam placments which are all in actual fact shit and get in the way of your feet. i stood there for a while fiddling some in, then noticed to my left there were some good sideways nut placments (small nuts, RPs, peanuts maybe) that seemed really solid, kinda like it made the rest of the shit cams redundant. my advice is get the nuts in on the left and sack off the cams. the actually climbing is about remembering is a slab and standing up instead of trying to pull too much on the pocket. bomber gear at next break, then piss finish up the dissapointing arete. try not to touch the HS which is inches away.

i would like to go back and try salmon Lh or something, would be a more suitable finish i recon, and safe.

[andy_e]

i thought you were going for edge lane with the knotted rope. :roll:

andi if you were struggling with conan on mother cap which was graded e2 when it was a route,you might end up in deep shit even on the softest e4.

E4 5c i could handle, E2 6b i can't

[Stubbs]

jetrunner isn;t soft touch really but fairly middling.

Cheers Dave - just wanted to do this before getting on the more difficult routes on the slab, which look a lot more quality.

[grimer]

I thought Jetrunner was more like average E3. Gear all seemed good, and you were going from rest to rest. Also thought Salmon LH was averagely easy E5, but i put a Friend in the Jetrunner pocket (above top break). Maybe people don't do thyis which might nudge it closer to E6, but you are right beside it, pretty much, and prabably makes it more enjoyable. (note sense of desperate justification...) Also there, to the right, is an E1 called Fizz. Absolute gem, a flat wall with 2 sets of pockets, both of which can be threaded. A great warm up if you're there for the salmon slab.

[webbo]

i thought you were going for edge lane with the knotted rope. :roll:

andi if you were struggling with conan on mother cap which was graded e2 when it was a route,you might end up in deep shit even on the softest e4.

E4 5c i could handle, E2 6b i can't

you're at it again.if you are so sure you handle it why are you asking for soft touches.
no wonder we take the piss.

[dave]

I thought Jetrunner was more like average E3.

Well lets just wait and see what the new guidebook writer thinks......
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.....ah fuck.

[nik at work]

Traveller In Time at Ramshaw seems to be widely regarded as tres soft - is it still E4?
Also that slabby arete one at Rivelin (can't remember the name, next to Party Animal I think) is soft but bold so depends on your head really.

Nihilistic Narl (stanage) used to be a soft E4 slab, but now is a gift at E5.

But thats just my opinion, and I find that my opinion and general concensus rarely coincide. Perhaps you'd be better listening to other people...

[Scouse D]

got to agree with Jimbo, Boggart LH is the definative soft touch E4.