[Fiend]

The clown is really good, although not one to dop when it's quite hot. It has a tricky, bouldery start and then is quite bold, the legendary peg is no longer there, or unuseable anyway. But the line is good and the obvious way up the clean face.

None of which convinces me that it is anything other than a death route with no holds and now, sans peg, no gear! I've been twice "for a look" including climbing up the tree opposite. The Face did look good, out of my league though. Well maybe I will try the clown, looks easy enough to set up a top-rope rescue ???

And, having been to Park Bank Crags once, I'd much rather go back to Alton Towers. Nemesis was mind-blowing as a "first rollercoaster ride in 15 years", and Air was just delightful...

[AndiT]

There's more gear than you think on The Clown, but it's still limited.. it's enough though, not as scary as you think, honest.

[andy popp]

Thanks Andi, I thought I was going mad. As I said never quite understood why this peg, which was not an old aid relic got accepted. Fiend, if the peg is in and you're solid at E4 I'd consider it. The Joker there is also good but tough I thought.

[Gus]

Sorry everyone,
Like Andi says, my memory is crap!
Still convinced bridge of Sighs goes to the right of the plaque though, well maybe......

[AndiT]

Gus get a grip.

I think pegs were just thought acceptable once upon a time in the churnet, with it being non-grit.

Amazing climb, amazing peg, amazing moves. Do it.

[grimer]

Gus you still haven't given me that tenner you owe me.

[David S]

Damn, you beat me to that one Grimer. Are you sure it was only a tenner 

[AndiT]

The Joker there is also good but tough I thought.

Not done this as it looks so bold, bouldery start then what looks like just faith moves upto about 25 foot, plus I've only seen it in condition in mid-summer when it would be even scarier. A great crag though with a bunch of quality routes.

Fiend, have you done DNA at Harston, that should be right up your street. I replaced the threads last year so it's safe enough too, just one very condensed tricky bit...

[Fiend]

Good recommendation, might have to get down there for that. I reckon this spring-autumn will be the time for Upper Churnizzle exploration

[AndiT]

It stays in good nick most year round being a pinnacle it carries very little drainage and the DNA side gets most sun keeping it clean. I was climbing there in mid november when elsewhere was grim. Best to get there before the midges do in my opinion as it can be unbearable when they arrive! There's a wod of other routes on the right hand face too which are very worthwhile, not least Helix which takes in some excellent ground. I've also got some excellent gear beta for the routes on the front face, seriously good stuff.

Let me know when you fancy a look, I've still got a couple there I'd totally love to do. There's probably only one move I've not done on the Boyson Carrington Route as it crosses other routes I've done there, but I've never done 'it' as a route. I wonder where that comes in the 'On-Sight' debate....

[Fiend]

There's probably only one move I've not done on the Boyson Carrington Route as it crosses other routes I've done there, but I've never done 'it' as a route. I wonder where that comes in the 'On-Sight' debate....

That depends on how much of a patio was present, how many pads were on the patio, whether you jumped off and deliberately missed the patio, or whether you used the gear beta but didn't jump off, or deliberately didn't listen to the gear beta, found your own and jumped off but didn't weight it, or if you did weight the beta gear but it ripped and you landed on the mats but not the patio and could get back on it, or.....

[AndiT]

Yes, that is true, so it is.

[GCW]

Wasn't there an argument previously about new ground and claiming on sights before?  Something about a boulder problem someone had wired then did the sit start first go and claimed it as an 8a flash?  Or am I wrong?

[AndiT]

Yeah, I remember something about that. It all kind of makes a mockery of the whole debate. Good job it doesn't actually matter in the grand scheme of things. Best bet is to take the on-sight and then let others fight over the nitty-gritty while getting on with things that really matter!

Ta ta.

[hongkongstuey]

Fiend, have you done DNA at Harston, that should be right up your street. I replaced the threads last year so it's safe enough too, just one very condensed tricky bit...

you mean you took out that pink thing i put in it about 10 years ago! the route won't be half as stylish now....

[Gus]

Hi Stu!!!
I've still got that bit of tat, found it in the back of my car the other day, it aint pink any more though, more a kind of washed out white with a tint of green moss, nice!!
Can't believe that was ten years ago!

[hongkongstuey]

maybe not quite 10-years but close - been out in HK long enough to claim my permanent residency later this year...

and in that time the only climber to visit me has been my brother (excluding Fiend and AndyR who I didn't know before heading out here), which goes to show how crap you lot are...

[AndiT]

Sorry! Hopefully see you later this year.

As for your ancient tat (and my ancient chalk bag string), for something which was almosta decade old it was bloody hard to cut through and pretty much brand new looking under the outer lichenous sheath. These tats last longer than you think. The ones I placed at the end of last year look grim now but I know they're in good nick. The rock through which they are threaded however....

[Fiend]

No specific questions this time, but a statement and a rant.

Statement: Sloper, belayed someone up Gargoyle Buttress and took the opportunity to second Dry Rot. Still E1 5b, still makes perfect sense. Make a couple of moves along GB, get your feet up, layback a little seam on the left edge of the faint rib, to gain better crozzles above, foot out right and pull up. I can only imagine you were trying a super direct eliminate without the rib of something.

Rant: Went back to Hanging Stone, tried Bridge Of Sighs again. Left of the plaque is still filthy and desperate looking, there are some foot holds but no hand holds except a tiny crimp at the bottom of the plaque. Right of the plaque is still the obvious line and still damn hard though. The arete is still bollox on the left and naturally leads you onto the right hand side. So basically it's still all bollox. The only thing that makes sense would be for BOS to climb the line at E3 6a, and JOC to climb the arete on it's right at E2 5b. Anyway I will probably leave it, no longer inspiring.

[SA Chris]

and in that time the only climber to visit me has been my brother (excluding Fiend and AndyR who I didn't know before heading out here), which goes to show how crap you lot are...

Where's that violin emoticon? Had the best will in the world, but fate has always conspired against me.

[AndiT]

Right of the plaque is still the obvious line and still damn hard though. The arete is still bollox on the left and naturally leads you onto the right hand side. So basically it's still all bollox. The only thing that makes sense would be for BOS to climb the line at E3 6a, and JOC to climb the arete on it's right at E2 5b. Anyway I will probably leave it, no longer inspiring.

Awww, come on, cheer up! The crux is hard, and a bit rubbish, which is why JOC makes for a better start. You need to stop being so pernickity, I think the guide would read better if it just said 'make you're way up to the overhang using the arete or plaque or both'. The whole point of the route is the last bit anyway so it doesn't matter how you get there really. I think you should have one more visit, just to mop up, I'll meet you and go through it with you. Have you done Double Overhang btw, that's a great route.

[Fiend]

Okay okay....I just don't like random lineless stuff really. I am tempted to go back (in the very distant future) with some pads and highball the start, as you say it's the top that's inspiring.

Double Overhang....yes, soloed it a few years back, pretty fun (on the same day I went across to Leicestershire to solo something on Beacon Hill...).

Next on the list are The Phantom @ Gradbach, Crystal Voyager @ Bosley, Kipling Arete @ Rudyard and Gateless Gate and the right arete @ Oldridge. And then the rest of the Churnet, and....

Blimey Staffs esoterica is cool.

[AndiT]

With JOC it is less random, but I suppose it's just one of those things, it is E3 after all, and that is for the start not the finish.

You've got a fine little list there, where's DNA in all that? Crystal Voyager is well good from your list as is Don ..... on the right arete of Oldridge. Don't forget Peakstone Rock and Garston Rock, there are a few gems there too.

[Somebody's Fool]

Crystal Voyager @ Bosley

Now we're talking.  Move for move this has got to be one of the best routes of it's height on grit.  It's also one of the hardest E3s.  Only one move easier than 5c on the whole thing.  At least one Staffordshire guru was reduced to quivering through the start like a dogging sheikh.

It's slightly marred by being escapable at the gear.  However once you've put the gear in you probably won't want to escape off right.  I fancy you will rather get involved in the awesome palming and bridging shenanigans that await to the left.

Recommended.

[AndiT]

Only one move easier than 5c on the whole thing.  At least one Staffordshire guru was reduced to quivering through the start like a dogging sheikh.

How many Guru's are there?