[Somebody's Fool]

Still think it needs a cat stone type string handline in order to help on the decent.

SF: Gun Hill???

Andi here's a terrible haiku to answer your query.

You're right 'bout the string. 
A Godsend for any crag.
Gun Hill: Wait til spring.

[andy popp]

It also says about how Simon headpointed Barriers for the first ascent and then had to watch, disgruntled, as others ground-upped and on-sighted it quickly afterwards and how he pee'd off Gibson by using side runners to protect Parallel Lines which he'd been saving up for the solo! Do you know the full story behind Sunday at Chapel? Did Nick really have gear in Ackit, it must have been high to be any use.

I did knack myself on it, falling round the arete on to the big sloping ledge, it took many years to over come my memory of this and succeed on it. This was on the day at Al made the second ascent after several screamers from near the top. I should add that we arrived that day as just about E4 climbers and Al left as an E6 leader. This was within weeks of the FA. Nick then headpointed it and, I think, Tony Ryan (?) did it OS or GU the same day as Nick. Don't know about SAC as I wasn't there but he might well have done. Fiend, you're right Secret Slab rock is almost identical to the very best bits of the Skyline. Amazing its there really. I though Slender Thread OK (grade wise, top notch quality), think it got E4 at the time.

[Fiend]

ST was pretty clean aye. A teeny bit of green at bottom and top but the meat of the "crack" was green. clean

Doh.

Kipling Arete for me next.

[grimer]

I belayed you on Barriers second time round, Andy. I remember you seemed a bit trepidatious. I think i have some not great pics of you on it. I flashed this myself a couple of years back, an hour after having to be rescued while trying to lead Ascent of Man.

[AndiT]

I have the mag on my lap. It's Climber May 1986. Andy, you're wearing a black and red striped jumper, red lycra bottoms and Fires, the article is by Nick Dixon.

"Simon set to work on what was to become his most significant and daunting Roaches route; BARRIERS IN TIME. Firstly after top rope examination the lower wall....was soloed to give FAIL SAFE...eventually a lead was made (of Barriers) in Calanque Boots at E6 6c. Half a year passed and then in the spring of 1984, Alan Wiiliams broke the ice with a sight second ascent. After eight knee-scrubbing falls from the crucial last slap, Alan topped-out, watched by a sulking Simon." That is proper news! It then goes on to Steve Allen making a second ascent of Ray's Roof and "converting the American 5.11c to a meaningless English E5 6b" and at Gib Tor "Jerry Moffat managed to top-rope the huge 12 foot roof...giving an indication of the future" oh and "WINGS OF UNREASON, E5 6c ... went generally unrecognised... downgraded to E2 5c".

Knee-scrubbing, sulking super stars, top rope reports, 'sight' ascents with falls. This is what climbing is all about.

[andy popp]

In all honesty I don't remember Simon being there, but it was 23 (!!!) years ago and as recent days have proved, my memory is not what it might be. Maybe Al would know, but I wouldn't bet on it. You're right, its a good story though.

[Gus]

Andi: I don't know about you but I feel really bad, having heard about the fall from Andy P first hand, and the psychological damage it's done!
Years ago Justin used to tell us the story of how Andy Popp had fallen off Barriers from high up, hit the ledge and ended up hanging on his ropes "twitching"
Remember how we'd laugh our heads off!
We're bad people.......

[AndiT]

Twitching and frothing at the mouth! Probably goes a long way to explain why I've still never got on the route.

[Fiend]

Beta please:

Indoor Fisherman, Froggatt: The start of the climb, getting from the left hand seam into the right hand flake. Left hand crimping at base of seam, right hand still on lower sidepull in the blind break at the start, left foot on smear below right hand, right foot doing nothing. Have tried to get a heel hool with right foot to bring right hand up to obvious flake sidepull - not happening. Looked at other methods but left hand in seam is too poor to do anything with.

Rainy Day Blues, Turningstone Edge: The first roof, getting past it. Left hand on good crimp, right hand in slot just right (small cam next to right hand), feet on block below. Only feasible method for those who aren't 6' or can't piss 1-4 on a campus board is to jump from block to catch break. However when looking at this option, the only possible result seems to be ending up dangling from cam. Have looked at using feet under roof (useless) and heel-hooking out right (can't get enough purchase).

Help please.

In return I can offer a recommendation: Cyclops Eye @ Cocking Tor - great wall climb, safe but committing finish, nice gaston moves, and not hard for the short unless you're really short (i.e. 5'6" and no AI or less).

[Paz]

Me Me Me!

I did the start of indoor fisherman using the right foot heelhook, but in Lasers, not in 5.10s.  A trad route made for Boreal wearing sport climbers
if ever there was one.  You just have to unlock the magic foot hold sequence or find the sweet spot.  In which case yes, the move is only 6a. 

You're right on that Cyclops Eye recommendation, though Dave may not agree.  His lead didn't go exactly to plan so me and Dangerous top roped it!  Toproping an E2, the shame. If only we'd have had the vision to notice BonJoy's circuit.

[Fiend]

Cyclops Eye is a clip up! Shame indeed.

The Boy's circuit does look pretty neat.

Have had similar suggestions for IF but it still sounds nails to me having been on the start a dozen or so times and knowing what the holds are like.

[Paz]

A Sheffield crew got bummed on it as well which surprised me given most of them climb font 7c - has something broke off it?

I did manage to get the move direct from the ground, but on the lead I came in from the right where the gear is (didn't have any pads) as I was worried about getting pumped.  Dogged the pumpy top anyway and it rained on the top mantel.  A hard start (that only I can do ;-) (?)) into pumpy climbing with pumpy gear and a sting for a top out.   There is no way that is E3.

[reeve]

Good work with all these questions Fiend, much inspiration when I then look at the guide and notice all these routes I never knew of.

Question from me: Jaded at Rivelin. Nails? Reachy (my usual excuse)? Or technical incompetence on my part? I can easily match the slopey rail but the next hold seems miles away and with my feet safely tucked underneath that overlap I can't just lay one on for it.

[Tommy]

Given that Mr Hoey was the FA, I'm not sure the long reach card can be played. I think he even did the FA onsight as well.

Here's one cribbed piece of beta:

A cunning knee-lock makes it possible to reach the sloping hold directly from below (for the tall) which gives an easier move than the depressingly powerful but obvious left hand crank on a tiny edge - probably still worth 6b though

[al]

in all honesty I don't remember Simon being there, but it was 23 (!!!) years ago and as recent days have proved, my memory is not what it might be. Maybe Al would know, but I wouldn't bet on it. You're right, its a good story though.

just seen this lot - hi andy, andy, gus, grimer etc.
can remember the day we did 'barriers' very clearly andy - simon wasn't there, but lurch and quent were up top creeping around like crows in the belfry. I also recall no plan to repeat 'barriers', but when we did 'failsafe' so easily I think we got ahead of ourselves and strapped in 
simon was, however, not amused that (like you say) a pair of E4 chancers repeated his test piece (big ego for a quiet lad)
as to 'sunday at chapel' my memory is more fuzzy - I belayed nick, claudie was there too, with squawk, but cannot remember whether there was a sidey in ackit (it wouldn't be unlike the style of the day if there was)
halcyon days all the same

[reeve]

In reference to Jaded: That beta's from rockfax.com right? Checked that already and can imagine getting the knee lock in from my memory of the wode horizontal that the crux is leaving from. I didn't try this however I can't imagine it getting me very near the hold anyway, rather stopping me gaining the required height! This beta is probably where my reach moanings originate!

[AndiT]

For Sunday At Chapel, it is described as having gear in Ackit. I don't know how this can be of use as it is miles away, unless it was at the top and there was also gear in the break of Ant Lives, it'll get sorted, one day... There are numerous other 'sideys' to consider too, their position being called into question as to whether the routes have really been done. There is a fine line between side runner and badly placed top rope and as is perhaps the case with S@C and atleast two other routes I have an eye on, make for semi-dubious claims. A side runner which can't even be placed from the route you are climbing can't be in, can it? Surely a big purple-party-seven can of retro-claims could erupt from this one.

More on thread, who has climbed Starlight and Storm on the Aguilette on the right all the way, I've never made head nor tail of this, although my smearing skills have never been upto much, for it's grade it surely has me stumped. Seems a lot more sensible/straight forward on it's left side, coming back right to finish above the break. 'Simon's Slab' to the right is, in my opinion much more ameanable the S&S which doesn't really make much sense.

Incidentally, I found a new contender for 'reach of the century' yesterday on a no star route at Hen Cloud called 'The Pinch'. A proper esoteric gem, protected almost exclusively by grainy threads and with a mother finishing move which I could only just reach by tip toes, breathing in and kind of walking up with my fingers to get the top (I am quite tall too). The guide says that grade is meaningless, it is, and if ever there was a call to re-introduce the right eliminate 5d grade, then this is it.

[webbo]

Beta please:

Indoor Fisherman, Froggatt: The start of the climb, getting from the left hand seam into the right hand flake. Left hand crimping at base of seam, right hand still on lower sidepull in the blind break at the start, left foot on smear below right hand, right foot doing nothing. Have tried to get a heel hool with right foot to bring right hand up to obvious flake sidepull - not happening. Looked at other methods but left hand in seam is too poor to do anything with.

climb the tree.

[andy popp]

in all honesty I don't remember Simon being there, but it was 23 (!!!) years ago and as recent days have proved, my memory is not what it might be. Maybe Al would know, but I wouldn't bet on it. You're right, its a good story though.

can remember the day we did 'barriers' very clearly andy - simon wasn't there, but lurch and quent were up top creeping around like crows in the belfry. I also recall no plan to repeat 'barriers', but when we did 'failsafe' so easily I think we got ahead of ourselves and strapped in 
simon was, however, not amused

Good to hear from you Al. Didn't think Simon was there but I'd forgotten Quent and Lurch were (for those who don't know who Lurch was/is, Al is being quite kind in comparing him to a crow in belfry) I never realised to this thread that Simon was miffed - as you say a quiet lad but there must have been a lot of drive there. On S@C, to be honest, Nick was never above the odd shenanigan, including badly placed siderunners/topropes. The Pinch has always been utterly notorious for reach.

[al]

Nick was never above the odd shenanigan

self protection as an art form - my fondest memory of this approach is on 'doug', with three of us holding a firemans blanket underneath, as nick crawled up the araldited pebbles..........

[Fiend]

8. Wings of Unreason (Skyline...I'm short it's E4)

could only just reach by tip toes, breathing in and kind of walking up with my fingers to get the top (I am quite tall too).

 

Always liked the look of S & S, get a summit tick and all that.


Webbo, the Fisherman tree has been gone for donkey's years!

[webbo]

i know just get surreal and imagine its still there and you'll be fine.

[tommytwotone]

Word up - after a bit of info...

Stopped off at Burbizzle to the Northizzle for a few routes ont' way back from Yorkshire yesterday and had a crack at Sentinel. I ended up shitting myself a bit going direct over the prow, and rocking round to the right side of the right arete (if that makes sense). After a good 5 mins of shaking and talking to myself I eventually topped it out from there - assuming I don't get the tick do I, as the route's graded for direct?

Oh, and when I got down my girlfriend (who'd been belaying) noticed that I hadn't doubled my harness buckle back through...felt a bit then a bit

Also - anyone know what size the 'bomber cam' in Windjammer is?

Thanks all...

[reeve]

Interesting about the Sentinel, I seem to remember sneaking round to the left a wee bit. I'd say as long as you stick to the prow more or less climb it as you like.
I think windjammer break is about 1.5 wild country friend. I'd take one either side of that though as insurance against my memory. Very pleasant route well worth doing, as is Now or Never (just to the left of the Sentinel) whilst you're in the area.

[Fiend]

Sentinel finish direct, you shouldn't be shitting yourself, there's a bomber cam in the break at the top. Dunno how much difference it makes but it's got a better feel going direct. The crux is by far placing those annoying wires in the lower crack. Real nice climbing though.

Now Or Never is awkward as hell. If you're after good routes at that standard, go do The Fin, a sweet little number.