[Will Hunt]

Will have you played Hollow Knight? Generally regarded as one of the best Metroid style games for many years and an absolute steal for just over a £10. One of the best games I've played on switch although it is very tricky at points!

Ok you've swayed me. A friend recommended this and I was waiting for a sale on principle, but I think a tenner is permissible for an impulse buy.

By the way, if you like that, have you played Death's Door? Brilliant!

Oh - my - fucking - God. Hollow Knight is one of the very best games I have ever played. Incredible.
The visuals, the sounds, the gameplay, the story. Everything just works so well. I loved the trepidation and tension of going into a new area, getting lost looking for the mapmaker, no benches anywhere, having to learn a new set of enemies and how to deal with them with health and soul ebbing away. Going into Deepnest quite early on was an eye-opener. I thought I didn't like rogue-like games with defined save points but it turns out I do!

It became apparent quite early on that it wasn't afraid to be difficult and I know a couple of people who gave up on it. One lurker of this very forum ragequit in the Soul Sanctum and deleted their save file to end their torture. The amazing thing is is how well the designers balance the game's difficulty. In the mid-late game I found the difficulty tailing off (apart from certain bosses - The Watcher Knights in particular caused some despair) but this wasn't just because I was getting more health and soul containers and a stronger nail, moreso it's because I was getting better and better. The genius of having certain unavoidable difficult sections, either platforming or combat, is that it forces you to get good, but in manageable chunks and always with a good reward at the end. The game is training you up to be good enough to beat it, you just have to enjoy the process. Nothing that's mandatory to progress the story is truly excruciating and there is always a good payoff that makes persistence worthwhile and draws you deeper in.

I am impressed/disgusted by how much content they put in for absolute psychopaths who want to flagellate themselves on the altar of difficulty. There are some bits of the game that are not mandatory and have no significant reward. I dipped my toe into this and the Trial of the Fool took me something like 4 evenings of effort to complete - harder than BOTW's Trial of the Sword on Master Mode IMO. This is the tip of the iceberg. I don't think I will be attempting the Path of Pain or the harder Pantheons. That said, they do make completing the story in some way reasonably accessible. There are about 5 alternative endings, the first of which is very steady but a bit unsatisfactory. The ending I went for for took more effort, but ripping off the Radiance's face and pummelling it into the Void was so worth it.

10/10. Sensational.

[JamieG]

Great post Will. I'm really glad you enjoyed it and I can see you are still in the thrall of the post Hollow Knight high. No game will feel quite right for a while after this. It really does nail (no pun intended) everything it is going for. I suggest changing genre entirely. Perhaps a little solitaire. :-)

[slab_happy]

I believe this may be relevant to the interests of some folks here:

https://www.bonfireside.chat/

A whole podcast series dedicated to the Souls games and soulslikes like Hollow Knight.

[Will Hunt]

Hollow Knight available for a fiver on the Nintendo eshop at the moment.

[SA Chris]

Wonder if I can pry the Switch from my daughter's fingers.

[slab_happy]

Well, so far I've fucking loved Disco Elysium, enjoyed and been annoyed by Kentucky Route Zero in equal measure

I have to agree with this. I loved Disco Elysium, but I just recently had to give up on Kentucky Route Zero. Just too pretentious for it's own good. I realised I only liked the art and occasional musical interludes. I had no idea what was going on, what the stakes were, why I was supposed to care about these characters. It has no sense of humour. Everything was so po-faced. Decisions didn't seem to have any influence on the story. There isn't really any gameplay to speak of. There were good moments and vignettes but overall not worth it. Played three acts and the intermission bits. No more!

Yeah, I liked the art and atmosphere and many of the story elements, but the whole thing played like that section which is set in an art exhibition: you walk into a scene, wander round it, look at the things, get required to pick lots of options which don't alter anything in any discernible way, and eventually you find the exit from that section and move on to the next one.

And it ALL plays like that. It never felt like making different choices would make the experience of the game different in any way.

Definitely. You are very much just an observer in the world. I have no issue with this per se and do joy a walking simulator from time to time (I enjoyed Firewatch and What Remains of Edith Finch) but Kentucky Route Zero was either too clever for it's own good or it was all lost on a philistine like me. :-) Shame I really wanted to enjoy it, because I like the setting, music, art etc.

Returning to this issue -- I had a lovely time with Dear Esther, where it's very clear from the first few minutes that all you can do is wander around in its world, occasionally encountering fragments of past story: you can't affect the world in any way. But I think I liked it because it is so clear about what it is (and within those limits, you're free to walk into the sea, throw yourself off cliffs, which do all have effects, etc., and its environment is incredibly detailed and atmospheric).

It doesn't offer you choices which then turn out to be meaningless, and which feel to me like busywork.

So instead I got excited about wading through an underground stream and finding out there was actually a current which would drag me along if I let it, or walking along a narrow ledge next to a sheer drop (having previously established I could fall off things).

[JamieG]

I haven’t played Dear Esther but did play the developers next game Everyone’s gone to the Rapture which I really enjoyed. Definitely more of an interactive story than game but still fun.

[slab_happy]

Whoa, Roadwarden is a brutal little number, and not afraid to let you run into dead ends and fail hard:

https://www.eurogamer.net/roadwarden-review-one-of-the-finest-historical-fantasies-youll-play
https://www.escapistmagazine.com/roadwarden-is-more-witcher-than-the-witcher/

It's "what if we took all the stupid level 1 fetch quests and put them in a world where everyone has their own motives and most of them are out to screw you and there are no right answers you can pick".

[SA Chris]

Wonder if I can pry the Switch from my daughter's fingers.

No need, spotted on son's Gamepass!

[slab_happy]

I found this fascinating, as someone who's very much a newbie gamer:

[JamieG]

I found this fascinating, as someone who's very much a newbie gamer:

I quite like his videos. I think he has a whole series of them.

[slab_happy]

Finished inscryption last night. Thought it was absolutely brilliant. If you like card/deck-building type games, rouge style gameplay and a LOT of weirdness, I can’t recommend it enough.

Presentation/art is really fantastic. It’s very creative, creepy and weird. Mechanics are really good fun with lots of nice twists.

Only minor letdown is a slight lull in the middle but otherwise it’s excellent. Don’t want to say too much and spoil anything. Best to go in as blind as possible.

I followed your rec and went in blind -- I've only played for a couple of hours, but am having a lovely time so far.

I've never played a deck-building game before and have no clue what I'm doing, but that's pretty much my normal state with new games anyway.

[JamieG]

Finished inscryption last night. Thought it was absolutely brilliant. If you like card/deck-building type games, rouge style gameplay and a LOT of weirdness, I can’t recommend it enough.

Presentation/art is really fantastic. It’s very creative, creepy and weird. Mechanics are really good fun with lots of nice twists.

Only minor letdown is a slight lull in the middle but otherwise it’s excellent. Don’t want to say too much and spoil anything. Best to go in as blind as possible.

I followed your rec and went in blind -- I've only played for a couple of hours, but am having a lovely time so far.

I've never played a deck-building game before and have no clue what I'm doing, but that's pretty much my normal state with new games anyway.

Excellent. I hope you enjoy it. It gets weird. I like a good deck building game. Slay the spire is also fantastic.

[slab_happy]

Made it to the third boss for the first time, and even into the second phase of that fight! And took much longer to die than I expected!

[Fiend]

https://store.steampowered.com/app/760060/Mutant_Year_Zero_Road_to_Eden/ #justsayin



Genuinely good TBS game. More streamlined than XCom, and plenty of character.

[slab_happy]

Alas, doesn't look like it's available for Mac.

As I said, my computer is very much not a gaming computer, so I'm a bit limited unless/until I crack and get something that is.

But please keep the recs coming, everyone! I'm interested in anything that doesn't require me to have reflexes, co-ordination or respond in real-time.

[Fiend]

Alas, doesn't look like it's available for Mac.

Crack and join #pcmasterrace !

[Will Hunt]

I presume you've played XCOM, Slab?

[slab_happy]

I presume you've played XCOM, Slab?

No -- I only discovered gaming last year, so it's pretty much all new to me. But Fiend's mentioned XCOM to me.

[Will Hunt]

Depending on what machine you have you might struggle to run XCOM2. I had to play it with massive loading times and jerky framerate when I first played it on a Mac. Later I played it on Switch and it was fine.

But, XCOM2 adds some layers of complexity to XCOM which might mean that it's all a bit much for a new player to take in. If you're new to the franchise then XCOM (with the DLCs) might be a good place to start, and it'll run on your Mac. Extremely good turn-based strategy where you aren't going to be rushed to make a decision (which is fortunate as making a bad decision can send your campaign into an unending doom spiral - "That's XCOM, baby", as the fans say.

[slab_happy]

I am no stranger to unending doom spirals in gaming! My first Roadwarden run was a slow bleed-out; it was great.

[JamieG]

Made it to the third boss for the first time, and even into the second phase of that fight! And took much longer to die than I expected!

Good work. I guess that is the thing with these card battlers. Sometimes you randomly hit a really good combo of cards and just breeze through bosses and other times it is a slog. Keeping going. And hope you are enjoying it. :-)

[JamieG]

But please keep the recs coming, everyone! I'm interested in anything that doesn't require me to have reflexes, co-ordination or respond in real-time.

Right on cue: - https://www.theguardian.com/games/2023/may/10/pushing-buttons-how-to-build-gaming-pc

In particular see the question block at the bottom with some recommended games. Of those I have only played Into the Breach which I thought was cool but didn't totally click for me.

And am currently playing Immortality which is really good. On that note - I can't recommend enough Sam Barlow's other game Her Story. Basically you are going through a database of police interview clips trying to solve a mystery. You use keywords to find new clips. It sounds a bit lame but it is really really good! The less you know going in probably the better.

Also, if you like story games and the walking simulator style, I think you would really like Gone Home too. (this is also based on other comments you have made in other threads on here . . . . ) :-) Again the less you know going in, the better.

(I hope I am right about the above recommendations, always hard to know what someone else will like, but give them a bash). 

[SA Chris]

My Son and I have been working through www.farchangingtides.com/ over a few months. It's pretty chilled out, with not a lot going on for some of the time, but some great puzzles / challenges to solve. Apparently it's a sequel, never played the first, don't know if it's better or worse.

It a bit linear and 2D but that suits us, especially me, I am crap with too many controls.

[JamieG]

My Son and I have been working through www.farchangingtides.com/ over a few months. It's pretty chilled out, with not a lot going on for some of the time, but some great puzzles / challenges to solve. Apparently it's a sequel, never played the first, don't know if it's better or worse.

It a bit linear and 2D but that suits us, especially me, I am crap with too many controls.

I've played both and really enjoyed them. Personally I thought the first was a much stronger game all round, but perhaps only because I played it first and the sequel was treading much of the same ground. Nevertheless a good recommendation.