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Rock climbing link to Dupuytren's disease (Read 72830 times)

uptown

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Rock climbing link to Dupuytren's disease
October 26, 2005, 09:00:33 pm
In 30/09/05 GP's "Journals Watch" I found interest in this:


Rock climbing link to Dupuytren's disease.
Br J Sports Med 2005; 39:639-44

"Hanging from a vertical face is not my idea of fun, but the researchers in this investigation may have had to in order to deliver the 1,100 questionnaires to the members of the Climbers' Club of Great Britain. Their hypothesis was to test if repetitive trauma to the palmar fascia predisposes to Dupuytren's disease. They only received a 51% response rate and almost all were male, but 19.5% had developed the disease and the age of onset was much younger than the general population. The conclusion was naturally, that it confirmed their hypoyhesis. The research was based in Wrexham, so no doubt the orthopaedic surgeons are spending their lives rearranging the hands of those who enjoy the Welsh mountain life."
Journal review by Dr Palmer - GP in Fareham, Hampshire.



Dr Palmer may make light of the research, yet I find it interesting reading.
I also gather that the disease mainly affects white men with North European ancestry - the odds are shortening for me...

I believe Bonjoy may have what appears to be the onset of said disease, illustrated below:



Does anyone else have experience of this?

Johnny Brown

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#1 Rock climbing link to Dupuytren's disease
October 27, 2005, 08:42:05 am
Surprised the research didn't have more to say about the long-term risks of gluing small pieces of marigold gloves to your palms...

Bonnos always refers to it as a 'syndrome' rather than a 'disease'.

uptown

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#2 Rock climbing link to Dupuytren's disease
October 27, 2005, 09:41:49 am
I never saw him in the aforementioned 'rubbers' :wink:


'Syndrome' - Any combination of signs or symptoms that are indicative of a particular disease or disorder.

Bonjoy

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#3 Rock climbing link to Dupuytren's disease
October 27, 2005, 09:45:33 am
It's Dupuytren's Contracture to be pedantic.
 Interesting stuff uptown. I had a hunch that the climbing might have been the trigger factor for my early onset. I remember the doctor saying she saw a lot of builders with it, which made me think that hand stress and trauma might be involved. Have also met quite a lot of other climbers with it.
 At the mo it doesn't cause any probs apart from on big slopers (although superglue and chopped up rubber gloves can sometimes help :? ) and when guppying blobs.

uptown

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#4 Rock climbing link to Dupuytren's disease
October 27, 2005, 10:07:26 am
Interestingly enough, repetitive trauma to the palmar fascia predisposes DD (Hmmm...)
ie: People who work with their hands will be more susceptible - Climbers, Builders etc.

This being the case, then will someone please explain the root cause of Peyronie's disease if you can!!  :wink:

As an aside JB - are you about the wkd? Jallum and I may pop down socially...

Bonjoy

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#5 Rock climbing link to Dupuytren's disease
October 27, 2005, 10:21:02 am
Will be out dans la grit Sat. Sunday looks poo, so might do some guide checking at eatswood or Shining Biff. No fixed plans of an eve yet. When youz thinking of comin' o'er?

Jim

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#6 Rock climbing link to Dupuytren's disease
October 27, 2005, 02:07:55 pm
Quote from: "Johnny Brown"
Surprised the research didn't have more to say about the long-term risks of gluing small pieces of marigold gloves to your palms....

Genius, forgot about that

Paz

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#7 Rock climbing link to Dupuytren's disease
October 28, 2005, 05:17:20 pm
I was looking to see what the palmar fascia flexor tendon insert looked like and came up with this:

Controversia theory number 6:  

There are up to 109 or 110 members of the climber's club who have an alcohol problem

"Table 4:2 Cutaneous and Other Superficial Signs Suggestive of Alcohol Misuse.
(Click the link for illustrations of each feature)
Spider Naevi
Telangiectasia
Facial Mooning
Parotid enlargement
Palmar erythema
Dupuytren's contracture
Gynaecomastia

http://www.medicouncilalcol.demon.co.uk/handbook/chapter_4.htm

There's a disclaimer saying you can also get it from repeated minor hand trauma but can anyone tell me you've never seen an old climbers (other than me) sink pints like there's no tomorrow?

inn wislon

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Quote from: "uptowngirl"
In 30/09/05 GP's "Journals Watch" I found interest in this:




Does anyone else have experience of this?



I have experiance of that.....the correct name for it is 'The Shocker'

Bubba

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#9 Rock climbing link to Dupuytren's disease
November 01, 2005, 09:43:00 pm
:lol:

Good first post!

Johnny Brown

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Bonnos, give us the lowdown on this. A lump has appeared on my right hand these last weeks and its in the same place as yours...

unclesomebody

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Sometimes the truth really is stranger than fiction... because I also developed a lump on my right hand about 2-3 weeks ago. It's almost directly beneath my ring finger about 2/5th's of the way down my palm. It feels like a hard lump, but can also feel sinewy when massaged deeply. I don't know where it came from or why... but I doubt it's a good thing.  Even stranger is the fact that we are loved/hated just the same JB.  :shrug:

SA Chris

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I too have one, in line with top of thumb and directly below ring finger. It's definitely got longer (about 1/2 " long now) compared to the lump it was a few months ago

Johnny Brown

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Sounds exactly like mine... we can be lump brothers.
Some good info here word: Common onset in european males at age 30

http://www.dupuytren-online.info/index.html

Seems like radiotherapy early on can have good results. Gonna try to get a proper diagnosis first, asap.

Ru

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I'd be concerned about the radio therapy leading to injury down the tendon - basically, if radioan stops the fibrosing, it will also stop tissue repair. Not much of an issue for joe public, but potentially more of one for us. Does sound good though and if mine gets worse I'll find out more.

SA Chris

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Mine doesn't bother me at the moment (apart from a callous forming on top of it) I'm just leaving it be.

Callous might just be from recent spate of biking / kayaking anyway.

Johnny Brown

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Yeah I notice discomfort mainly when cycling.

I think I'd be keen to nip it in the bud rather than worry about impaired tissue repair.

Pantontino

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Mine was worse when I first got it, but these days it doesn't bother me at all.

Johnny Brown

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Apparently there is a period of initial growth followed by years of not much. Then it grows again, this time curling your fingers up and creating horseshoe lumps that mean you have to superglue rubber on to hang slopers.

In good company at least - already would seem to be prove the prevalance amongst long time climbers!

GCW

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As far as I was aware, there ha never been a good quality study showing a link.  I have looked before but never found anything appropriate.  I'll have to have a proper look on PubMed when I get the chance.

All about myofibroblasts.

Bonjoy

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Bonnos, give us the lowdown on this. A lump has appeared on my right hand these last weeks and its in the same place as yours...
That link you sited is very good and there's not much info I could add. Reading it I learned some new thing, like people with DC might be well advised to avoid/stop taking Glucosamine and/or Chondroitin and the potential link with Insulin Deficiency - http://www.dupuytrens-a-new-theory.com/pages/1/index.htm
 It sounds like radiotherapy might be a good option for early stage DC (mine's probably too far gone now). I'd look into it further if I was you. Don't expect to be able to get it for free or in the UK though. Sound's like Germany or Austria is the best bet. If it suceeded in stopping it dead it would be worth any associated risk IMO.
 For my money if/when contracture becomes a problem I will go down the line of Needle Aponeurosis(sp?). Again I will proabably have to fund this myself and go to Paris to have it done.
 

Bonjoy

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As far as I was aware, there ha never been a good quality study showing a link.  I have looked before but never found anything appropriate.  I'll have to have a proper look on PubMed when I get the chance.

All about myofibroblasts.
I don't need a scientific study to tell me what I can see clearly for myself. The number of long time climbers coming out of the woodwork with early onset DC is enough to convince me that climbing is the trigger.

GCW

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For my money if/when contracture becomes a problem I will go down the line of Needle Aponeurosis.
This is essentially a closed method of Dupuytren's Fasciotomy.  Works OK in early stages for contracture release but recurrence of contracture is 100%.  But, it's a minimally invasive method.  Some say there is a high risk of neurovascular injury (numb finger, worse case amputation) but in experiences hands this shouldn't be too high.

EDIT to add reply to Bonjoy:
I don't need a scientific study to tell me what I can see clearly for myself. The number of long time climbers coming out of the woodwork with early onset DC is enough to convince me that climbing is the trigger.
Fair enough, but this is SCIENCE and not hearsay.  It may well be a cause, but very big, high quality studies that showed no increase incidence in recurent palmar trauma.  That doesn't mean it doesn't have an input, just that no-one has demonstrated it properly.

Bonjoy

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 Oh right, I'm to suspend judgement until SCIENCE replicates the patently obvious? What are the odds of a big study into a climbing link to DC? In the meantime I'll draw my own conclusions.
 I would have said it's highly plausible/likely that the repetitive trauma/pressures created by climbing intensively would be very individual to climbing and therefore the study you mention would prove/disprove nothing in relation to it.

GCW

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You know that's not what I'm saying.  I expect there will be a link between climbing and DC. 
Another point, you would think it would be the lower level climbers who go out regularly (blindingly obvious) not the high level climbers who tend to crimp more (crimping causes less palmar fascia trauma that jug pulling).  Views on that?

My Gran smoked 100 fags a day and she lived til she was ......... blah

 

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