[Dingdong]

Steep Traverse at Plantation springs to mind as a 3* problem where the crux is not dabbing.

More cheese gromit. 2 star line and crux is not dabbing on the block…

[petejh]

Just catching up on the recent and not-so-recent fun. So let me get this right.

In terms of gender and dab / pad-stack shaming, the previous stats were 2 out of 13 previous shames were women compared to men (of which one was refuted anyway)??

So which of the two are you suggesting isn't a woman? (be very careful answering that).

[Johnny Brown]

Steep traverse is worth climbing, that I agree. I wouldn’t give it any stars.

[Fiend]

@petejh - the shame call was refuted, you troublemaker!

[Will Hunt]

A super soft 6C at the Plantation. Would it stretch the imagination to suppose that the 3-star voters were blinded to the climb's objective quality by a) the fact that it's their first 6C, and b) that they were outside of the M25 for a few hours?


 

[csl]

b) that they were outside of the M25 for a few hours?

Please don't turn your bullying on London climbers Will, I won't be able to take it.

[Dingdong]

A super soft 6C at the Plantation. Would it stretch the imagination to suppose that the 3-star voters were blinded to the climb's objective quality by a) the fact that it's their first 6C, and b) that they were outside of the M25 for a few hours?


 

Sorry but what. Steep traverse isn’t super soft  not sure what you been smoking will but share it with the rest of us. I feel like you’re just calling it soft so you have some kind of response to the fact that it’s a classic starred line that’s dabby and thus refutes your argument.

[Will Hunt]

Sorry but what. Steep traverse isn’t super soft  not sure what you been smoking will but share it with the rest of us.

This is just how incredible I am at downgrading now. When you've been downgrading as long as I have, and not just casually but really committing to the grind, you don't even need to remember climbing something to downgrade it - in fact, you needn't have climbed it at all.

I've been training my downgrading so hard that my brain is now like a mathematical grading model. I input the data I find on UKC - the number of ticks compared to other climbs of the same grade at the crag, the voting, the comments, who's ticking it, what crag it's at - and my brain just spits out the correct grade. Some nights when I'm well recruited I'm downgrading 50 Peak classics in a session. I once made a University of East Anglia minibus turn around on the M1 when they saw what I'd done to their goals for the weekend.

You too can learn this power, but are you prepared to put in the graft?

NSFW  :

[spidermonkey09]

The Sheriff at Woodhouse is worth doing but the lowballness ruins it. Would be very very good if it was the height of Demon Wall Roof. As it is its merely worth doing when you're there. (there you go Fiend, someone had to).

Ultimately this is now an aesthetic discussion, and I'm on Will, Fiend and JBs side. The rest of you bloody boulderers have no taste. Dabbiness not being a sign of shitness but instead recast as a chance to use your abripperx honed core? Grim sit starts with a rancid first move miles harder than the rest are now powerful and tensiony? We're through the looking glass here 

[Dingdong]

The Sheriff at Woodhouse is worth doing but the lowballness ruins it. Would be very very good if it was the height of Demon Wall Roof. As it is its merely worth doing when you're there. (there you go Fiend, someone had to).

Ultimately this is now an aesthetic discussion, and I'm on Will, Fiend and JBs side. The rest of you bloody boulderers have no taste. Dabbiness not being a sign of shitness but instead recast as a chance to use your abripperx honed core? Grim sit starts with a rancid first move miles harder than the rest are now powerful and tensiony? We're through the looking glass here 

Step aside old men, new blood has arrived.

[Footwork]

I'm on Will, Fiend and JBs side.

What an unholy alliance. Where can I sign up

[Fiend]

I'm on Will, Fiend and JBs side.

What an unholy alliance. Where can I sign up

You can take my place. Being lumped in with Will is about the worst insult I've taken on here. In fact I might have to call spidermonkey09 out for bullying for that 

[Bradders]

The Sheriff at Woodhouse is worth doing but the lowballness ruins it. Would be very very good if it was the height of Demon Wall Roof. As it is its merely worth doing when you're there. (there you go Fiend, someone had to).

Ultimately this is now an aesthetic discussion, and I'm on Will, Fiend and JBs side. The rest of you bloody boulderers have no taste. Dabbiness not being a sign of shitness but instead recast as a chance to use your abripperx honed core? Grim sit starts with a rancid first move miles harder than the rest are now powerful and tensiony? We're through the looking glass here 

And yet you're recommending The Sheriff as "worth doing"?! 

[Moo]

I usually try to avoid any controversy by only calling people out who are obviously much better than me at climbing. That way I can't be accused of punching down on anyone, just petty nitpicking and generally obtuse behaviour, which I'm fine with.

Seriously though, dab's a dab and if I see one I'm calling it out 

[Bonjoy]

Seriously though, dab's a dab and if I see one I'm calling it out 

In case anyone isn't sure...

[Bonjoy]

I always struggle telling a dover sole from a bristol heel.

[Bradders]

Fun one for the defined start / quality debate;

Matryoshka at Doll Tor. Initially climbed by Dave Fidler leaning in from standing on a block / higher ground to the left, see vid below:

https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/doll_tor-18391/matryoshka-612610

Subsequently climbed by Ned jump starting from lower ground directly beneath the arete:

https://www.instagram.com/p/Cn1cfnWtlBt/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

Which is better? And importantly, how many pads are people allowed to stack for either start?

[teestub]

I couldn’t work out why he was wearing a kneepad until I noticed he had a knee scum in whilst still stood on the floor to reach higher, that’s a new one on me!

[Wellsy]

Steep Traverse at Plantation springs to mind as a 3* problem where the crux is not dabbing.

That's the crux for the tall, but I'm 5'11" and I didn't have to carefully avoid dabbing to do it. I don't think anyone under 6' is really going to find not dabbing on it a problem

[Wellsy]

I've been wavering on commenting on this thread but I think it's useful to contribute my perspective.

I spent most of my childhood and teenage years being bullied pretty badly for social awkwardness and none-conformity (I suspect due to undiagnosed ADHD amongst other things) and as a result have taken some time to come around to the concept of an enjoyable piss-taking/light mockery amongst friends and acquaintances.

However with that in mind though I've come to see it as a useful and funny part of the social experience - but within certain boundaries which avoid causing misunderstanding and emotional escalation/damage.

For me this works in the following context:

1) You must always have some level of pre-existing personal relationship with the person you're sharing the piss taking with, whether they are the subject of the piss taking or are joking with you about someone else is is the subject.

2) If the piss taking is happening in a public setting, then the subject should be present and taking part in the discussion. If the person is not 'present' then the discussion should not be public.

3) If the subject cannot be guaranteed to be present then the nature of the joking needs to be kept within appropriate boundaries. And easy filter for this is if you would feel comfortable saying what you're writing directly to the face of someone who you've never met previously and without context. If you're someone who typically struggles to read social cues then it's best to be more cautious.

If the piss taking strays outside of these contexts then it's mockery/bullying because the useful and enjoyable social element is lost to one or more of the parties involved and it becomes destructive rather than constructive.

The issue with this current discussion (and in a gentler sense, the overall tone of this thread - but I respect that there is nuance with anything that someone has openly published online) is that it's public but unable to meet rule two and is crossing the line on rule three. This is a difficult situation because most people here are making the valid point that there is a useful component to the information delivered and that using humour as a mechanism to deliver it is a good way to do so.

The key is to make sure that the subject of the social error can feel a little embarrassed but still see the funny side which allows for constructive social growth and group learning as opposed to ostracisation. This then strengthens both the message and the social dynamic.

Happy to be called out but that's my perspective as someone who learnt to love a little fun-poking later in life after much unhappiness.

Ooops skimmed over this before but worth replying to as unlike some of the other responses it's an actual attempt to analyse bullying and look at boundaries and rationale and form a coherent argument.

Good post, good argument, but it misses the key factor that the subject has deliberately chosen to post (or promote) media to an unlimited public audience showing their dabbing (or whatever). That very public showing I think negates some of your criteria, and makes it quite different to bullying about non-promoted issues. I doubt anyone would advocate trying to hack into someone's private videos or scroll through their phone to find unshared photos to then publicly highlight the subject's dabbing!!

Edit: Okay this video is unlisted, but JF , WTF did a skinny cunt 65kg waif need to lie down for a rest on this:

I agree with a lot of this but I don't think people use social media that way. I occasionally post vids of climbing on Instagram, mostly cos I like the platform for seeing what my friends and such are up to. I also am quite proud of some of the things I've done so I whack em up. I wouldn't say I'm promoting myself

As far as bullying goes there has been bullying on this site while I've been here. I think it's an important thing to talk about.

[GazM]

They might not intentionally use social media that way, but that's the reality of it. Especially if people include hashtags - what else are they for if not to spread the post as  far as possible?

[sdm]

With Instagram's terrible search algorithm, hashtags are the only way to make it possible for people to find beta videos for problems at smaller crags or recently developed crags/problems. I wish it was standard to include the crag and problem name as hashtags.

Climbingismypassion etc can get in the bin.

I hate to agree with Will on downgrades but Steep Traverse is nowhere close to 6C. Maybe it might have made sense as a grade 30 years ago(?) when the average 6C climber would have had little experience of very steep climbing. Now that everyone learns to climb on a juggy roof indoors, 6C is a joke.

[Wellsy]

With Instagram's terrible search algorithm, hashtags are the only way to make it possible for people to find beta videos for problems at smaller crags or recently developed crags/problems. I wish it was standard to include the crag and problem name as hashtags.

Climbingismypassion etc can get in the bin.

I hate to agree with Will on downgrades but Steep Traverse is nowhere close to 6C. Maybe it might have made sense as a grade 30 years ago(?) when the average 6C climber would have had little experience of very steep climbing. Now that everyone learns to climb on a juggy roof indoors, 6C is a joke.

That doesn't make sense. It might be the case that there are more people who can do 6C in that style these days, but that doesn't mean it isn't 6C. Or are we upgrading all the smeary slabs too?

[mrjonathanr]

As far as bullying goes there has been bullying on this site while I've been here. I think it's an important thing to talk about.

 https://anti-bullyingalliance.org.uk/tools-information has lots of good resources about this. Whilst aimed primarily at a school audience, the principles and dynamics apply to other contexts. Having done their CPD training, I'd recommend the course to those interested in the topic. You don't have to work in a school. You can put NA down for role and organisation when registering for their online course.

https://anti-bullyingalliance.org.uk/tools-information/free-cpd-online-training

[Bradders]

With Instagram's terrible search algorithm, hashtags are the only way to make it possible for people to find beta videos for problems at smaller crags or recently developed crags/problems. I wish it was standard to include the crag and problem name as hashtags.

Climbingismypassion etc can get in the bin.

I hate to agree with Will on downgrades but Steep Traverse is nowhere close to 6C. Maybe it might have made sense as a grade 30 years ago(?) when the average 6C climber would have had little experience of very steep climbing. Now that everyone learns to climb on a juggy roof indoors, 6C is a joke.

That doesn't make sense. It might be the case that there are more people who can do 6C in that style these days, but that doesn't mean it isn't 6C. Or are we upgrading all the smeary slabs too?

Very much agree with that; there is clear evidence of this happening through climbing history though, e.g. old school vert crimpy things done in the 80s when that was the prevailing style. Point being that something in a style more of the general population excel at at the time will get more ascents and 'feel' easier to those people, even if objectively it isn't. The key to me is always to compare similar rock climbs, and avoid comparing climbs that are totally different styles.