[Plattsy]

Sit starts without crash pad are still a thing in Font. I suspect they use sit start pads or towels....

A presumably recent example.

https://bleau.info/marion/309115.html

[Fultonius]

Sit starts without crash pad are still a thing in Font. I suspect they use sit start pads or towels....

A presumably recent example.

https://bleau.info/marion/309115.html

Is that not a bona fide DAB at 12 seconds?  There was definitely a physics-defying change of acceleration that I've never seen without contact. Could be wrong...just sayin....       

Back to the topic - @Si Witcher, while I used it as an example of what I thought was a poor way to broach the subject, it wasn't intended as a personal attack.

With regards to agreeing what even *are* the rules for sHit starts, it's clear even that has varying degrees of input. While "bum on dirt" is clearly the easiest to define, it's also the most  / morpho / unfair. Defined starting holds is perhaps better (fairer) but more open to abuse - how much bum spring to do you het off the mat, how thick is it, what's the exact placement.

There's a great lie-down start problem at Dumby (toto sit) that is HARDER with a mat, as it doesn't let you get properly under the holds. Well, it used to be but erosion is maybe changing that. And, while razor blades are uncommon, broken glass isn't! 

[spidermonkey09]

Sit starts without crash pad are still a thing in Font. I suspect they use sit start pads or towels....

A presumably recent example.

https://bleau.info/marion/309115.html

Theres a mat visible in that video. 'Only' a thin one I think, but thats already thicker than a towel!

[Will Hunt]

I can't believe people are claiming to have done sit starts off a towel.

[Wellsy]

You would never ever catch me posting a comment on a girlsongrit video saying "you did that wrong" or any variation thereof. There's zero chance that'll come off well. And I'm okay with that! It's a space and platform where I'm ill advised to provide critical comment, and that's fine
 
I feel like some people want to always be able to comment on any platform in any space and have their words heeded, and I think that is not a realistic thing to expect.

[Bradders]

Just an example here, but the description "sit start without crashpad" is a very common thing to see when browsing bleau.info...

https://bleau.info/apremontsanglier/302391.html

[Droyd]

There have been loads of thoughtful responses here and I think that's all to the good - I’m alright with being told that I’m full of shit and having holes in arguments pointed out. But there have also been a lot of comedy bits based on stereotypes of blue-haired American uni students screaming that they can identify as whatever they want and general mocking of ideas like victimisation and safe spaces and privilege that were never part of the discussion in the first place, in response to a basic argument that women in a male-dominated environment might be bothered by things that men aren’t bothered by. Obviously that’s to be expected because this is an online forum and it's much more fun than writing walls of text, but it probably also explains why in this whole discussion there have only been two contributors who have said that they’re women.

[webbo]

Just an example here, but the description "sit start without crashpad" is a very common thing to see when browsing bleau.info...

https://bleau.info/apremontsanglier/302391.html

Yet in the video he starts kneeling 

[User deactivated.]

I can't think of a single boulder problem I've tried where a mandated* sit start improved the quality of the problem over a hypothetical low start using the same starting holds. Difficulty yes, quality no.

*sometimes a sit start might actually be easier than a crouch by allowing you to get under the holds better. In this scenario, starting sitting doesn't need to be a rule.

[36chambers]

I “did” l’aerodynamite off a 3 pad stack and my friend, who can easily reach more than pad higher than me, “did” it off two. I’m just wondering who’s not done it the most?

[tommytwotone]

I can't think of a single boulder problem I've tried where a mandated* sit start improved the quality of the problem over a hypothetical low start using the same starting holds. Difficulty yes, quality no.

*sometimes a sit start might actually be easier than a crouch by allowing you to get under the holds better. In this scenario, starting sitting doesn't need to be a rule.

Crash n' Gurn is both harder and arguably not as good if you don't pull your arse off the ground / mat / beer towel (delete as appropriate)

There's also that 7a slab up and right of the walk-in from the small car park...seem to recall the description on that one mandates starting off the floor, not a pad (albeit it's not a SS)

[Andy W]

I can't think of a single boulder problem I've tried where a mandated* sit start improved the quality of the problem over a hypothetical low start using the same starting holds. Difficulty yes, quality no.

*sometimes a sit start might actually be easier than a crouch by allowing you to get under the holds better. In this scenario, starting sitting doesn't need to be a rule.

Any problem that starts sitting is better quality in my terms than low or crouching… that’s because my knees are fucked and sitting down is better than crouched. I actually think crouching starts are generally less satisfying than sitting.

[36chambers]

Sitters are usually much better than those awkward crouch starts where you have to pull on with one foot and hop/slam your other foot into whatever place it should be. Those things suck.

[Bradders]

Any problem that starts sitting is better quality in my terms than low or crouching… that’s because my knees are fucked and sitting down is better than crouched. I actually think crouching starts are generally less satisfying than sitting.

Agreed, it's way more satisfying to pull on from sitting than starting crouched.

[yetix]

There have been loads of thoughtful responses here and I think that's all to the good - I’m alright with being told that I’m full of shit and having holes in arguments pointed out. But there have also been a lot of comedy bits based on stereotypes of blue-haired American uni students screaming that they can identify as whatever they want and general mocking of ideas like victimisation and safe spaces and privilege that were never part of the discussion in the first place, in response to a basic argument that women in a male-dominated environment might be bothered by things that men aren’t bothered by. Obviously that’s to be expected because this is an online forum and it's much more fun than writing walls of text, but it probably also explains why in this whole discussion there have only been two contributors who have said that they’re women.

This.

[Jono.r23]

Is it cheating if you build a new floor? https://www.instagram.com/p/CoueptxSYwU/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

[scragrock]

There have been loads of thoughtful responses here and I think that's all to the good - I’m alright with being told that I’m full of shit and having holes in arguments pointed out. But there have also been a lot of comedy bits based on stereotypes of blue-haired American uni students screaming that they can identify as whatever they want and general mocking of ideas like victimisation and safe spaces and privilege that were never part of the discussion in the first place, in response to a basic argument that women in a male-dominated environment might be bothered by things that men aren’t bothered by. Obviously that’s to be expected because this is an online forum and it's much more fun than writing walls of text, but it probably also explains why in this whole discussion there have only been two contributors who have said that they’re women.

I have history with this thread, In my opinion it is scraping the ragged edge of bullying, i have tried in vain in the past {look up my previous posts} to express my misgivings re the Bring out your dabs crew with little impact or sway.

i sidestepped in to humour after awhile thinking it might shine a light on the ridiculousness of the whole endeavour. 

So my comedic response was along the same lines, as far as i can tell i am Not good at communicating over the web in a serious fashion, with this in mind i would be happy to meet in person to discuss any issues you might have with whatever i have written and go through things in an adult and gentle discussion filled with nuance and understanding.

Thank you for your comments

[teestub]

There have been loads of thoughtful responses here and I think that's all to the good - I’m alright with being told that I’m full of shit and having holes in arguments pointed out. But there have also been a lot of comedy bits based on stereotypes of blue-haired American uni students screaming that they can identify as whatever they want and general mocking of ideas like victimisation and safe spaces and privilege that were never part of the discussion in the first place, in response to a basic argument that women in a male-dominated environment might be bothered by things that men aren’t bothered by. Obviously that’s to be expected because this is an online forum and it's much more fun than writing walls of text, but it probably also explains why in this whole discussion there have only been two contributors who have said that they’re women.

Just to clarify, my mocking is solely pointed towards Mr Hunt, and I am fully supportive of the playing field being leveled by people using the requsite amount of pads they need to reach starting holds. Equity rather than equality.

[mrjonathanr]

I “did” l’aerodynamite off a 3 pad stack and my friend, who can easily reach more than pad higher than me, “did” it off two. I’m just wondering who’s not done it the most?

You.

Friend = -2p
You = -3p

You have failed -3/-2 = 150% more than (s)he has.

[honroid]

I “did” l’aerodynamite off a 3 pad stack and my friend, who can easily reach more than pad higher than me, “did” it off two. I’m just wondering who’s not done it the most?

You.

Friend = -2p
You = -3p

You have failed -3/-2 = 150% more than (s)he has.

Brilliant

[Kingy]

If you start Trigger Cut in the cave with about 5 pads stacked, its possible to start with your arms bent which is easier than pulling on from the limit of your reach standing on say 2 pads (obvs depending on reach).

[monkoffunk]

Shameless and wanton boulder dab at 1min 25sec, invalidating send that was subsequently claimed on 8a.nu.

[chrisbrooke]

Famous Grouse is one where a true 'arse on the ground' sit is a fair bit harder than a crouch or pad stack start. I've seen a few ascents with comments of 'sit didn't add much' where it's been more of a crouch start. I can't get off the ground at all from a true sit on that one.

[sirlockoff]

I am not entirely sure how well this suits to this thread, but there is also the issue of which starting holds you start with when you climb a non-sit climb,

for example,

The rib in burbage south: you can start like in the attached pic: https://ibb.co/bXhdhYz

basically right hand on the high crimp and start heel on, this will make the problem around V4-5 for me. But that crimp from ground is only accessible when you are taller.

If you do it with other starting holds, for me it felt much harder to the extent that I've never crimped so hard on grit.

I have more examples like that 

should a 2030 guidebook be a digital app that shows every climb outside like it is a board climb with predefined feet and hands, or will we be ok as a community that there are plenty of climbs where taller climbers will be able to start with higher holds  that give them pretty good advance sometimes, to the extent of skipping the crux.

this thread coule be renamed to be a bit wider, 'bring out the pitchforks'

[User deactivated.]

Start holds should absolutely be defined where they're not patently obvious.

Different variations of a problem should be given defined grades. for example:

Help the Young - 7A+ (French start)
Help the Young Stand Start - 7B+
Help the Young Sit Start - 7C+
Help the Young Sit Start (No Foot Block) - 8A

In a perfect world, I'd prefer the purest and fullest line to be the one that gets the name, and all the others are lesser variations. This would make the 8A version simply 'Help the Young' in my book. However, it's likely the easiest version of a problem will get done and be named first.