[Dingdong]

The Pebble Wall thing was so prevalent that you'd have spent lots of time on it - I think it was as was mentioned above.
Someone does it (wrong), posts up, others see sees the video...the spiral begins.

I'd always wondered how much the guidebook was to blame on this one (the Total Climbing one). The photo is taken from the side so the lines aren't obvious. I can remember doing the 6C (in error), saying to my mate "there's no way that's 7B" and then trying to the left.

There was a similar misunderstanding when another mate told me he'd done Sewer Rat Connection (7B+) at Almscliff. I said "f**king hell, good effort" as I'd had a couple of sessions on it and was making minimal progress. We ended up at the crag together some months later and he pointed out what he'd done, which definitely wasn't Sewer Rat and was about 7A despite what the Total Climbing guide had to say. It continues to amaze me that people can't tell the difference.

It amazes me that people can! A lot of grading is (imo) utterly nonsensical. Especially on grit.

If you're climbing on problems which have been recently developed or had little traffic then this is because people don't make any effort to challenge the FA's grade any more.

It's crazy that when people get consistently shut down by a particular grade then flash or otherwise piss a climb given that grade they don't seem to stop and wonder whether the grade could be wrong, especially on relatively new stuff.

Excuse my complaining. I was slightly triggered in this regard at the weekend and still not over it.

Not sure what climbing circles you run in but plenty of people dispute FA grades all the time. I’ve had people dispute mine and I’ve disputed new FA grades as well E.g. stroll the merry way

[Wellsy]

Yeah we definitely won't aggressively take the piss

[Bradders]

Excuse my complaining. I was slightly triggered in this regard at the weekend and still not over it.

It’s ok Will this is a safe space, tell us where the bad man misgraded

No it isn't.... 

[petejh]

people don't make any effort to challenge the FA's grade any more.

I'll see your 'people don't make any effort to challenge', and raise you one 'N.Gresham new route'.

[SA Chris]

ref: "downgrader" Hunt, as per TTT's mention earlier.

[tommytwotone]

Oh my god I've just seen Girls On Grit has posted a video of Whisky Galore. Will Hunt baiting as its finest surely.

[Fultonius]

Well, I just flicked through the GirlsOnGrit Instagram page and... Si Witcher...that's a great help example on NOT to discuss starting holds on a sit start on a page set up for girls on grit. Back around 

[Will Hunt]

Oh my god I've just seen Girls On Grit has posted a video of Whisky Galore. Will Hunt baiting as its finest surely.

Just wait till they pan a few metres to the right and see the in-situ 8 pad stack under Titfield to allow people to pull on from the good holds.

I did see somebody looking very capable on Crucifix Traverse but finishing just before the crack. I'm not saying anything, I don't need cancelling.

[SiWitcher]

...that's a great help example on NOT to discuss starting holds on a sit start on a page set up for girls on grit. Back around 

Hi, I guess all I can add at this point some way down the thread is to reassure you that I stand by my original comment on IG. I'm in the minority, clearly, in choosing to comment at all and in not sugar-coating my feedback. I'm fine with that. People have diverse views which are often interesting to hear, as long as we avoid personal attacks and stick to commenting on the moves and style.

To recap:
1. If you're a grown-up climbing instructor posting on your professional account, setting an example to the masses of less-experienced climbers of whatever gender, then don't claim a sit start of any specific grade if you're not sitting on the ground. As discussed up thread, if you can't reach the 'standard' sit-start handholds, then I guess you could claim it as a low start on defined holds or something else - whatever, but do acknowledge the higher start point (of your arse).
2. What gives me the right to comment on a female beta page? The platform is open to all to comment - engagement is literally what drives it.

[teestub]

if you can't reach the 'standard' sit-start handholds, then I guess you could claim it as a low start on defined holds or something else - whatever, but do acknowledge the higher start point (of your arse).

What’s the regulation sit start pad thickness to make sure I comply with this rule, should my arse be on nothing thicker than a beer towel, or is a 5inch thick pad ok?!

[abarro81]

don't claim a sit start of any specific grade if you're not sitting on the ground

I'm gonna need a lot of tipex, the only time I ever sit on the actual floor is when I don't have enough pads or it's so low I can't fit otherwise! Personally I think Bonjoy's guideline of shorties stacking as many as strictly necessary to reach the holds but no more makes far more sense than shorties claiming a whole bunch of super-shit-super-low variations 

[Will Hunt]

don't claim a sit start of any specific grade if you're not sitting on the ground.

This is such a weird and pointlessly strict rule. Almost nobody abides by this.

[Dingdong]

...that's a great help example on NOT to discuss starting holds on a sit start on a page set up for girls on grit. Back around 

Hi, I guess all I can add at this point some way down the thread is to reassure you that I stand by my original comment on IG. I'm in the minority, clearly, in choosing to comment at all and in not sugar-coating my feedback. I'm fine with that. People have diverse views which are often interesting to hear, as long as we avoid personal attacks and stick to commenting on the moves and style.

To recap:
1. If you're a grown-up climbing instructor posting on your professional account, setting an example to the masses of less-experienced climbers of whatever gender, then don't claim a sit start of any specific grade if you're not sitting on the ground. As discussed up thread, if you can't reach the 'standard' sit-start handholds, then I guess you could claim it as a low start on defined holds or something else - whatever, but do acknowledge the higher start point (of your arse).
2. What gives me the right to comment on a female beta page? The platform is open to all to comment - engagement is literally what drives it.

No one’s saying you can’t call questionable stuff out but what we’re saying is that this is a particularly stupid hill to die on, mostly because you’re applying really stupid and contrived rules which only complicated and confuses people even further.

There’s multiple pad brands all of different thicknesses so ymmv.

[spidermonkey09]

don't claim a sit start of any specific grade if you're not sitting on the ground.

This is such a weird and pointlessly strict rule. Almost nobody abides by this.

Nobody except the OP, surely? I have literally never heard of the idea that a sit start only counts if your arse is on the muddy/stony/sandy/shitty ground today. I've never done a sit start apparently.

[Andy W]

don't claim a sit start of any specific grade if you're not sitting on the ground.

This is such a weird and pointlessly strict rule. Almost nobody abides by this.

Nobody except the OP, surely? I have literally never heard of the idea that a sit start only counts if your arse is on the muddy/stony/sandy/shitty ground today. I've never done a sit start apparently.

As someone who bouldered pre pads and who took at the time note of the Fontainebleau original ethic of doing exactly that, ie on your arse, on the ground,  I imagine lots of people did. Not saying I do that now, but maybe its worth remembering, at least to 'ground' the issue with a nod to original ethics or rules.

[jwi]

The first Font guidebook I owned clearly stated that départ assis meant sitting on the ground or on a towel. Départ bas meant low defined start holds, but crouching start OK.

O tempora, o mores

[scragrock]

Evening Gentlefolks
I also went to check out GirlsonGrit hoping they might offer some much needed advice on the grade of sandpaper i might use to erase my inherent privilege, unfortunately they could neither fix my institutional racism or give a comprehensive review of the abrasive qualities of ceramic alumina, silicon carbide and aluminium oxide.
Yesterday while out at my local boulder i decided to solve ALL my problems and identify as a pan sexual furry called "~". I,we,them,they had just pulled on the start holds and a fierce representative of the patriarchy assaulted us with his toxic masculinity and a barrage of micro aggressions "Excuse me, i dont mean to be an arse but if you intend to climb that line you might want to begin at the original start holds set down by the first ascensionist about a foot lower and to your right". 
My blue hair nearly turned red and i barely contained ourselves, we screamed in his Fucken Face " did you just misgender me you rapist conservative pig". I quickly stabbed him through his objectifying eyeholes before he could oppress me further, thanking the Earth mother that another carbon loving right-wing Brexit Maga lover would no longer add to the already overpopulation problem, Hail Greta. 

After a quiet session i went home to find the Police waiting for me, my sentencing awaits but in the meantime i spend my days as Belinda in the woman's prison, thank Nietzsche for our Scottish progressive ways.

A lesson to us all i think

[spidermonkey09]

Didn't know that about font, good knowledge. But it's worth remembering in the sense that it's worth remembering Joe Brown did all his routes in plimsolls. Good historical knowledge, but To replicate it today would be an anachronism except where required (eg when there is no space for both pad and arse).

[petejh]

Good historical knowledge, but To replicate it today would be an anachronism except where required (eg when there is no space for both pad and arse).

At the risk of asking the obvious: why?

No argument over the thickness of a towel as there is with a pad - a towel is a towel give or take a few mm. It provides a much more level playing field than a pad.. It keeps your ass clean and dry. Be honest - you don't 'need' a pad to sit on to start a boulder problem to make it a bearable proposition, its not like there are razers on the ground unless you boulder at the Breck.

Sorry for being sensible. Carry on finding ways to cheat

[spidermonkey09]

Cause the protection has improved ; I gather the arse on the ground advice was pre pads right? Obviously a towel is fine for cleaning your boots and not getting mud on your arse, but it wouldn't be a lot of good for falling on. (I know I know, weren't the oldies hard etc etc).

For me pads, like sticky rubber, are progress. Seems dumb to not move on when 99%+ of other climbers have?

[teestub]

I guess it makes more sense in the sandpits of font than the mud or rocks that most landings have to offer in this country. Like you said I sit in a mat because I have one there, and I have missed moves on sit starts before and smashed my lower back missing pads.

I wonder what the bum on the sand bleausards do now on problems where the landings have been eroded down by half a metre!

[Will Hunt]

This part of the debate is easily resolved by accepting that a problem whose difficulty is significantly affected by the difference in thickness between a towel and a pad is inherently shit and thus not worth arguing about. Anybody propping up their climbing CV with big numbers acquired in such a fashion can receive the same wry smile and knowing nod as those whose sole Font X has been ticked by climbing a Font X-1 into a slightly harder finish. Probably at Raven Tor.

[petejh]

Cause the protection has improved ; I gather the arse on the ground advice was pre pads right? Obviously a towel is fine for cleaning your boots and not getting mud on your arse, but it wouldn't be a lot of good for falling on. (I know I know, weren't the oldies hard etc etc).

For me pads, like sticky rubber, are progress. Seems dumb to not move on when 99%+ of other climbers have?

Protection against what? A move off the ground? To be facetious why not put loads of pads then if protection is your reason.  As more pads offers more protection.


It would be pretty straightforward to start off a towel but have a pad immediately behind/adjacent to it to protect you.

Like 95% of people, I don't do this. But it does make a lot of sense if you're keen on having a more level playing field than n=? pads of indeterminate thickness.

[SA Chris]

I wonder what the bum on the sand bleausards do now on problems where the landings have been eroded down by half a metre!

Unless you did a laser scan of the area at the time of your first ascent and 3D mapped a replica of the ground you just aren't putting the effort in.

[Wellsy]

Good historical knowledge, but To replicate it today would be an anachronism except where required (eg when there is no space for both pad and arse).

At the risk of asking the obvious: why?

No argument over the thickness of a towel as there is with a pad - a towel is a towel give or take a few mm. It provides a much more level playing field than a pad.. It keeps your ass clean and dry. Be honest - you don't 'need' a pad to sit on to start a boulder problem to make it a bearable proposition, its not like there are razers on the ground unless you boulder at the Breck.

Sorry for being sensible. Carry on finding ways to cheat

What an unbelievably cheap shot