[BenF]

After going to Earl yesterday and failing yet again at this problem (I can't even do it from the block let alone the floor), I realise that I need help...

I just can't get a decent sequence despite the enticingly good looking holds higher up.  So how do you do it?  My final attempts yesterday saw me trying to campus from the good lower edges on the left.  Totally pants I know, but it seemed like a good idea at one point.

Should I be getting the edges to the left and swinging my right heel up high and rocking up to the next pair of holds?  Or should I just let it lie and take up billiards?

[dave]

if i recall correctly from the ledge i had a god lefthand hold and a decent righthand hold over right with a foot on the ledge. then brought right foot up to rock onto that slopey thing high right, take foot off ledge, sag left to matck the lefthand hold (well i say match its just 2 holds next to each other), then pop up with lefthand for a positive crcimp then pop with right for good big hold, then get the top. Think this is pretty much the sequence used in Stick It. If its any consolation i think this is as hard if not harder than andy browns, you've really got to pull hard.

I always think the version starting rigth off the floor looks doable but then i can never pull on.

[squeek]

You can start with both hands on the right, but I think the problem climbs better with one hand out left and one on the right.

On the right handside when you pull on there's an obvious triangular foothold that you can put your right foot on, don't use this as a smear, use a small edge to the right of it for your right toe.  With your foot on this drop down so your right hand is next to your left, go up with your left hand to a crimp, then roll your shoulders and stand on your right foot to catch the biggish hold. If you catch this you should be ok for the rest, the topout's ok.  This is the sequence I find the easiest, but you can also do it using the good smear like Dave said.

[BenF]

Thanks guys, that all makes sense and is pretty much how I thought it would go.  Bringing the right foot up high seems a little scary with that block below you so I'll go back with some spotters (and a top rope ).

I'll also attempt to get some talent 'cos I reckon that'll help too.

In comparison, yeah I would agree it seems harder than some other Earl stuff like Desert Island from sitter, sloping beauty etc.
Not the most overgraded problem in the guide eh?

Thanks again for the help, I have a sequence now and I'll get back on it next time I head there for my annual attempts at Lager Lager Lager (now that's another story of talentless flailing).

[squeek]

In comparison, yeah I would agree it seems harder than some other Earl stuff like Desert Island from sitter, sloping beauty etc.
Not the most overgraded problem in the guide eh?

Really?  I should probably get those two done then instead of flailing about on them on my repeated attempts, I couldn't do Desert Island arete from standing last time I tried!  Have you done the gimp?  that's about the same grade, probably easier despite getting V8 in the guide (IIRC).

[andy_e]

pictures on yorkshiregrit.com  i.e

study them.

also a good top-down in this month's friction.

[dave]

if anyone wants any beta for DIA then here goes. firsty forget using the good starting hold on the arete as a sidepull, instead use the bottom seam of it round the left of the arete as a normal horizontal straight hold. can't remember if i crimp it or openhand it thumbpinching the arete. right hand goes on something on the other side, whatever. left foot somewhere obvious, then right foot goes up and heelhooks the big sidepull over right - you then pull straight up for that hold on the arete, then as normal jump up and sit on your left foot to get that hold out left. This also works well for climbing into it from the righthand sitter - its basically no harder. Dunno about the left sitter.

The advantage of this is you don't have to fight any kinda barndoor that you may get if pull on on the RH side of the arete  then trying to fall round the arete style. Question?

[Stubbs]

Word, similar to the sequence i was trying last winter without sucess, but didn't have the heelhook on sidepull beta, think it's time to get back up to Earl before the temperatures fall to Siberian levels....

[Bonjoy]

Have done both sitters. The LH one is a lot harder than the right and is well good. The RH finish is also good.
 A big chunk came off the RH sidepull a couple of years back, which makes the dave sequence possible/easier.

[squeek]

When I did DIA it felt easy, but I haven't done it since using the same beta (although I've only tried it in one session).  I started left hand pinching arete, right hand big sidepull, right foot back wall, left foot up to smear on arete, swap feet, heel hook with left, up to slopey hold high on arete, turn left heel into a toe and rock over to get the hold on break.  

I'm going to go to Earl next opportunity after I get back from Font, DIA, Underpants, Sloping Beauty, Superfly, Grape Nut (from ground) ...  it's as if the crag is my ticklist!

[Stubbs]

If you can do HA and DIA, you should find sloping beauty pish. My personal beta is to get a little crimp to the left of the sloper, which is angled at 45 degrees, with my left hand, then right hand up onto sloper and go. Everyone seems to have different beta for this though - some involving toe hooks out right, some involving the crystals to the right of the sloper (which are all wrong in my opinion, and a good way to bleed).

[dave]

Everyone seems to have different beta for this though  

Damn right. Mines the best though.

Rock up left for sloper from low pocket. Get fingers on sloper and curl your thumb underneath your first finger as if you're trying to hide your thumb from view. You'll find your thumb will hook over a pebble and takea lot of weight off your fingers - for me this si key to holding this hold well. Swap feet on that line of footholds, bring RH up to crimp that bunch of crystals right of the sloper - this in't as bad as it sounds, it's a really positive hold. Then just slap up left fo the top jug. This sequence got me up it on a day when I had about 8 split tips taped up, that thumb is a real lifesaver for shot skin on the left hand. Its also good cos it keeps you over the better landing and cos you're front-on at all times its not freaky at all, you won't take bad falls. All these sequences involving undercutting, crossovers, toehooks etc are just as wack as someone wacking off their load of man-wax all over game Whack Attack whilst wearing a waxed jacket.

[Stubbs]

Next time you go, find the crimp rail to the left and thou shalt be converted like an overweight american being pulled out of their wheelchair by a man in a shiny suit. my beta means you get to move off the sloper for the top, rather than having to bone off a crimp, and you know that sloper is the best hold thereabouts.

[dave]

you trippin? the crystal hold is a jug! no sense using a crap hold when theres a sinker 3 inches away - this ain't the pinches wall.

[BenF]

Haven't tried the Gimp although I looked at it yesterday and thought it looked a tad eliminate.  I realise that's a bit daft coming from a British climber, but it didn't look a strong line.  I'll give it a go though.  

And thanks for the photo Andi, but I'm not sure it helps much, just annoys me that the climber can make the problem look so easy.

[BenF]

I'm going to go to Earl next opportunity after I get back from Font, DIA, Underpants, Sloping Beauty, Superfly, Grape Nut (from ground) ...  it's as if the crag is my ticklist!

Ah yeah, the place is full of utter quality.  Surely the best grit crag?  For pure lines, clean unsandy rock and the setting.  Never fail to be satisfied with a visit to Earl.

[Stubbs]

no sense using a crap hold when theres a sinker 3 inches away.

yes yes, my point exactly, except you appear to have confused the holds: Sloper = good, crytals = bad. The problem is sloping beauty, not crystal beauty after all eh?

Earl is only let down by it's aspect, if it faced any other way it would be ten times as busy and polished to hell... hmm maybe facing north is a good thing.

[BenF]

Earl is only let down by it's aspect, if it faced any other way it would be ten times as busy and polished to hell... hmm maybe facing north is a good thing.

And further to that, Earl's aspect is a boon (I don't think I've ever used that word before) in early/late summer when it provides much better conditions than other grit crags.  Even in winter, facing north doesn't cause that much discomfort or dampness in the grand scheme of things.

[dave]

the great thing about earl is its good training for the real thing - burbage earl. :wink:

[BenF]

the great thing about earl is its good training for the real thing - burbage earl. :wink:

No, the great thing about burbage is its good training for the real thing - Earl.

There is a great similarity between the two venues and I'm hard pressed to choose between the two.  Rock is better at Earl, less polish and more classics (yeah go on, argue it).  But Burbage has a little more volume and plenty of other close classy venues (and I said classy, not glassy).  Then again Earl is easily combined with Widdop or even Bridies, except that its falling down and needs to be left well alone now.

[dave]

there aint no polish at burbage earl. you must be thinking of the other burbages.

[BenF]

there aint no polish at burbage earl. you must be thinking of the other burbages.

And how many Burbages are there exactly?  Or can there be only one?

[dave]

loadsa burbages, burbage north, burbage west, burbage bridge, burbage south-west (toads mouth, carl wark south etc). higgar east could really be called burbage west-north-west-by-north, and carl wark could be burbage west-south-west-by-west. burbage earl is a subset of burbage south, being the part of the crag east of stampede, so called cos its very like earl crag, i.e. dark green, good lines, dodgy landings. or conversley, maybe earl is named after burbage earl. any questions?

[squeek]

Crookrise is also near to Earl and Shipley Glen doesn't take too long to get to from Earl, rock to rock.  Another plus point for Earl is that is never seems to be very busy.

I was never overly impressed with the bouldering at Burbage, but I haven't been there since getting Ru's guide, so I should probably go back and have a reassesment.

[BenF]

loadsa burbages, burbage north, burbage west, burbage bridge, burbage south-west (toads mouth, carl wark south etc). higgar east could really be called burbage west-north-west-by-north, and carl wark could be burbage west-south-west-by-west. burbage earl is a subset of burbage south, being the part of the crag east of stampede, so called cos its very like earl crag, i.e. dark green, good lines, dodgy landings. or conversley, maybe earl is named after burbage earl. any questions?

Fantastic summary there Dave.  You forgot the Cowper Stone though.  It's technically part of the same valley, just a little higher up the watershed.  Would that be Burbage extreme north west?

No doubt you will furnish me with a suitable response.  And people used to say I went on about Burbage too much...  

[BenF]

Crookrise is also near to Earl and Shipley Glen doesn't take too long to get to from Earl, rock to rock.  Another plus point for Earl is that is never seems to be very busy.

I was never overly impressed with the bouldering at Burbage, but I haven't been there since getting Ru's guide, so I should probably go back and have a reassesment.

So Earl is the new Burbage?  Maybe we could transfer Remergence Buttress up there and our work is done.

[dave]

i was gonna put the cowper stone as burbage north-north but i wasn't sure it would stand up to scrutiny. maybe we can just call earl burbage north-north-north-north-north-north-north-north for the sake of simplicity?

both earl and burbage earl are good crags, but burbage ealr is an hour closer to my house, so it wins.

[Jim]

Handy andy's is hard for the grade IMHO. you need good skin for sloping beauty. LH start to DIA looked like utter bolloxs to me, just a one move throw into the normal start, did the move but didn't bother linking it into DIA.
Who goes to earl crag then another? you boys mustn't be putting enough effort in. apart from the fact I never have any skin after been at earl, my body is utterly fuct cos its one of the butchest grit crags going. Its also the best.

My HA beta:
lean out from block and get good RH and LH holds, feet off, pull up, RF on sloping foothold. slap LH up to next hold (2 different bits to this hold, lower bit which is smaller and more positive or upper bit which is bigger and slightly slopier) I use the lower bit of this hold. RF off and onto the more positive foothold slighly in and up from sloping one, left leg slighly round the arete (crucial IMO for next move) pull into it and go for the good triangular hold with RH (3 fingers) get RF on small hold quite high up and lock for the top. Jobs a good'un

[andy_e]

loadsa burbages, burbage north, burbage west, burbage bridge, burbage south-west (toads mouth, carl wark south etc). higgar east could really be called burbage west-north-west-by-north, and carl wark could be burbage west-south-west-by-west. burbage earl is a subset of burbage south, being the part of the crag east of stampede, so called cos its very like earl crag, i.e. dark green, good lines, dodgy landings. or conversley, maybe earl is named after burbage earl. any questions?

Fantastic summary there Dave.  You forgot the Cowper Stone though.  It's technically part of the same valley, just a little higher up the watershed.  Would that be Burbage extreme north west?

No doubt you will furnish me with a suitable response.  And people used to say I went on about Burbage too much...  

and the bit north of cowperstone? long burbage stoneedge? burbage quarry far south? burbage's mother? burbagestones? burbage and the garden of secrets? burbage north (wales)? bubage steep? Burbage tor? burbage o'ert road?

[Bonjoy]

LH start to DIA looked like utter bolloxs to me, just a one move throw into the normal start, did the move but didn't bother linking it into DIA.

 Are you tripped out on goofballs jim?? Or do you have a +15" ape index? I take it by normal start you don't mean one move into the RH sit start, which is obviously bollox :roll: . The normal start is left hand on arete and right on sidepull, gaining this in one move is a move i'd pay money to see!
 The way I gained this position was something like, big move to a slopey pinch at the bottom of the arete, toe shinanigans to bring left hand into intermediate undercut, flick right hand into guppy, left hand up to crimp, cutloose, feet back on summat, RH out to big sidepull, flick LH into sidepull. Hard 7b.

[BenF]

both earl and burbage earl are good crags, but burbage ealr is an hour closer to my house, so it wins.

However, True Earl is closer to my house than Faux Earl, so it wins for me.  I guess that's a score draw then.

[Jim]

starting from the back of the roof (big slot I think?) don't remember much to be honest, a few of us there, looked at it, agreed it was rubbish. Think your on about just staying on LH side for start which looked bunched up and arse dragging. This is all from hazy memory tho, could be wrong. Is it worth doing the LH start?

[BenF]

Who goes to earl crag then another? you boys mustn't be putting enough effort in. apart from the fact I never have any skin after been at earl, my body is utterly fuct cos its one of the butchest grit crags going. Its also the best.

No, it must be you that ain't trying! :wink:   A two or three crag day is ALWAYS a good day.  And a better way of getting a full day of new stuff rather than spending all day on one project or circuiting on stuff you know inside out.  Having said that, Earl probably ain't the best to go to first because there's always so much to do and it can mess you up.  But I find it quite skin friendly really.

[squeek]

Who goes to earl crag then another? you boys mustn't be putting enough effort in.

Me, as it's 20 minutes from my house we optimistically go there, see everything's wet, then go somewhere else.  I'd never go somewhere else if it was dry.  Another good point for Earl, you can see for miles, and if Pendle hill has just disappeared from vision due to rain, then it's time to run to the car, (or find a nice roof to sit under, it was the Gimp last time).

[BenF]

starting from the back of the roof (big slot I think?) don't remember much to be honest, a few of us there, looked at it, agreed it was rubbish. Think your on about just staying on LH side for start which looked bunched up and arse dragging. This is all from hazy memory tho, could be wrong. Is it worth doing the LH start?

I've not tried the left hand start but it looks a bit poor, especially when compared with the right hand sitter which is utterly amazing, better than the stand up and some of the best moves on grit. Fact.

[AndyR]

flick right hand into guppy,

Come again?

[moose]

my winter's ambition is to get just one decent day at Earl after 4 attempts! First 3 times it was dripping wet and I ended up at Shipley.  The last time it was incredibly warm and in my eagerness to make up for lost time I tore my fingers to pieces warming up (Trick Arete was a blood bath).  Well worth a 2 hour drive.... This thread's got me eager to try again though... just need a few dry days before a weekend.

[BenF]

Dr Guppy looks like someone has already...

[Bonjoy]

starting from the back of the roof (big slot I think?) don't remember much to be honest, a few of us there, looked at it, agreed it was rubbish. Think your on about just staying on LH side for start which looked bunched up and arse dragging. This is all from hazy memory tho, could be wrong. Is it worth doing the LH start?

 Yeah, I rated it. The moves are good and really devious, better than the other SS I thought  in my opinion. Not at all bunched and no more arse dragging than any other SS.

[AndyR]

BJ - what is a guppy?

[webbo]

BJ - what is a guppy?

is it like a yuppie but grumpy rather than young.

[cofe]

like a backhand cup. but not a cup you'd receive if dodging tax. also not to be confused with a backhand mug, or beaker.

cupping with thumbs down. but not a...............

[Bonjoy]

Like a fresh water blenny.
 Or like cofe sez, thumb down vertical hand wrap. Also known as moulding, pistol grip, gupston or cygnet

[AndyR]

Ahh, a flangecup - it's all clear now.

[Jim]

an upside down pinch

[cofe]

an upside down pinch

incorrect. back to jail.

[Falling Down]

BJ - what is a guppy?

[dave]

the right hand sitter which is utterly amazing, better than the stand up and some of the best moves on grit. Fact.

steady on - its alright but its not even the best thing on the crag!

[BenF]

the right hand sitter which is utterly amazing, better than the stand up and some of the best moves on grit. Fact.

steady on - its alright but its not even the best thing on the crag!

No sorry Dave, I have consulted with everyone in the room at the moment and without a single voice of dissent everyone agrees with my original statement.  Evidence based research that.

PLUS...  Simon Panton put it in the definitive, scientifically proven, agreed by everyone ultimate top 50 boulder problems in the world.  Case proven methinks.  :wink:

[dave]

I have consulted with everyone in the room at the moment

are you dialing in from a phonebox?

[BenF]

   

Erm no, I'm at the annual Grit fest conference in Otley with a host of mega stars.  A meeting place for like-minded people to discuss the best that bouldering has to offer.  A bit like the Petzl Roc Trip, but wetter.

[cofe]

A bit like the Petzl Roc Trip, but wetter.

Petzl Clown's Pocket?

[BenF]

Yup, that's lost me.  But for some reason I laughed.

[cofe]

A bit like the Petzl Roc Trip, but wetter.

Petzl Clown's Pocket?

Petzl Wizard's Sleeve.

It's a metaphor.

[dave]

A bit like the Petzl Roc Trip, but wetter.

Petzl Clown's Pocket?

Petzl Wizard's Sleeve.

It's a metaphor.

No it isn't, its a punani.

[Jim]

surely you beaver's?
slack end of a welly.

[a dense loner]

cofe: it's wetter than an otter's pocket. how many clowns do you see with wet pockets? come to think of it...

right start to dia is quality left start is log. you were right jim, you have to have the courage of your convictions you're gettin married soon. there's a reason we all call bonjoy "esoterica" n laugh at him behind his back :wink:

[Bonjoy]

[a dense loner]

alway's good