[dave]

a friend of mine who is in prison is thinking about testing the waters of considering his options for researching the posibilty of maybe getting a digital SLR. £600 or less kinda mark, preferably with lens. Its just a theoretical possibilty at this stage.

looks like theres a few out there at the mo for that kinda dollar:

canon 300D
canon 350D
canon 10D
Nikon D70
Nikon D50
Pentax *ist

obviously the 350d and D70 are well jackson, but what about the rest? anyone got one of any of them, etc. Hit me with some science yall.

[SA Chris]

http://www.dpreview.com/ seems to be the best place for impartial reviews.

I got a Pentax *ist D body refurbished with full guarantee off ebay last week for £470, and am pretty pleased. I made sure I stuck with Pentax as I have 4 lenses and a flash that are compatible. No ide how it compares, but a friend has one or the other Canon, and he says it's pretty fast focussing, and smaller and lighter in comparison.

Bear in mind there are two versions of the *ist now, the D and the DS, which is lighter and cheaper, but slightly lower quality.

[Bubba]

I got the 10D - see Cofe for a review though coz he played with mine and actually knows what he's on about rather than me who's still relearning my photo skillz.

[cofe]

coz he played with mine

<sn**ger>

[Bubba]

You loved it you slag.

[dave]

any more for any more?

[Johnny Brown]

Choice is likely to revolve around whether you have old lenses you can use...

D70 consistently gets the best reviews, plus a step above in build quality. Should be cheap at the mo as upgraded version has just come out.

Wouldn't buy a Canon 300/350 cos I'd break it - low price = super cheap construction. Rumours about Pentax are similar but I haven't played wit one. But then I like to play rough....

Don't overlook Olympus E-1, slightly lower res (couple of years old) but full pro build quality and gets best reviews for ease of handling and image quality straight out of the camera. Again upgrade imminent so prices falling...

[dave]

aye cheers JB - thought you had a 'lympus. my current camera is a olympus C3040z which to be honest i can't fault it, bonza lens quality for the money (i payed £150 second hand), but was going to steer clear of them though what with there being like fuck all lenses available for the slrs, maybe its not that big an issue though. The other thing i'd seen was the E-300 which looks a bit queer but has got this new untrasonic dust thing to keep the sensor clean - unfortunatley the reviews of it don't make it sound like the rest of it is up to scratch image-kwality wise compared to the others.

apparently the D70s are quite rugged for a plastic body. have had a look at a 300D and they feel like a airfix kit in comparison.

[dave]

p.s. i have no existing lenses.

[Bubba]

Yeah, the 10d has a magnesium body, and is partly environmentally sealed....i.e. splash/dust proof.

[SA Chris]

partly environmentally sealed....i.e. splash/dust proof.

Is that like being partly pregnant? I guess you will always get dust in if you are changing lenses though.

[Johnny Brown]

Depends whether you need the build quality I guess....

I agree, the E-300 looks queer. Both that and the E-1 have the dust removal ting on the sensor, which peeps rave about. If you change lenses regularly dust is inevitable, all the mags now have guides to swabbing it off, personally I wouldn't wanna touch that chip. There are plenty of lenses available for the E-system, but not so many have made it onto the second hand scene yet. If you like the C3040 the controls, menus and general feel will be similar...

Bottom line is, go into a shop and compare the feel and the viewfinders. Make sure the lenses are similar - you want summat like a 28-105 equivalent, as fast as possible (ie max aperture 4 or less, ideally 2.. The Canon lens you get in the bundle is supposed to be crap, others are all meant to be good. In fact, general rule is that Canon are the best for the technology - highest res etc, but at the expense of build kwalitee.

If you go fo res - 350D
Build kwalitee - 10D or E-1
Somewhere between - D70
bottom line for me is viewfinder and handling.

[dave]

word cheers for the info, will check some shit out - hadn't thought much bout the viewfinder cos i ain't had to use one for the last 3 years!

[Johnny Brown]

Taking pictures using the LCD is known as 'chimping' and laughed at by 'real' photographers. You need to learn how to squint, and fast.

[dave]

word - but you generally gotta do it with most non-SLR digitals cos the viewfinders are generally shit and you're seeing different to what you'll actually be shooting, particularly at zoom. is also useful for reaching out for shots where you can't lean over far enough. Not an issue with digital SLRs though obviously.

[Johnny Brown]

Only jokin Dave - the only ting that matters is the results. Have heard of 'real ale' type photographers gaffa taping the lcd over so they can't check the results until the shoot is over....
You do look like a chimp though.

[dave]

You do look like a chimp though.

i believe the phrase you are looking for is "you are hung like a baboon".

[SA Chris]

. Have heard of 'real ale' type photographers gaffa taping the lcd over so they can't check the results until the shoot is over....

Real ale is still using a Manual SLR and slide or B & W. And a darkroom. And prime lenses.

Like I was until a week ago

Although I might dust off the old prime 24mm, as it will be pretty useful with the smaller field on the digi.

[dave]

one other thing i've noticed is the nikon D50 coming out next week , which is supposed to be like 90% of a D70/s but for like £100+ less (presumably why nikon were doing £100 cashback on the D70 till sunday). It does come with a less-telephoto lens kit though (18-50ish?). That might be worth me looking at, but not going to rush into owt, need to check stuff out have a feel around etc. presumably the D70s may drop in price more now anall.

P.s. apparently the D70 etc will take old manual prime lenses, but you don't get any metering or nowt so you're going commando.

[SA Chris]

P.s. apparently the D70 etc will take old manual prime lenses, but you don't get any metering or nowt so you're going commando.

Shirley you will still get light metering, just need to adjust aperture (set to Aperture Priority?) and focus manually?

[cofe]

think you lose TTL metering but don't think it's that difficult to meter; just stop down lense to desired aperture - think only difference is the viewfinder will get darker the smaller the aperture.

[dave]

took the words right out of my mouth.

[SA Chris]

As Meatloaf once said.

Will dig out manual lenses tonight and have a play.

[Johnny Brown]

The D50 will be built like the 300/350D though. And if it comes with a cheaper lens it'll no doubt be cack like the canon one....

Nikon have the best backwards compatability, fo sho. Whether its any use to you is a different matter.

[dave]

dpreview says

The overall feel of the camera hasn't changed much from the D70, it still feels solidly put together with tight panel gaps, no creaks and a slightly more professional feel than Canon's EOS 350D.

but we'll have to see for ourselves when they hit the shops.

[dave]

word muthafukkaz

hit myself off with one o deez bad boys last week and ting:



first impressions - its dropping the bomb shit like enola gay. its ill like the bubonic plague. its blinging like Jimmy Savile on a tagteam trolleydash with Mr T round a H.Samuel factory outlet.

hopefully it gets even better when i get me head round all the bells and whistles.

anyroad, is there any good photo book what i aughtta read and shit? like ansel-A's Da Camera or any shit like that, onetime? word.

[SA Chris]

Looks like the money to me!

I'm sure hedgecoe and co have produced a bumper book of digital photography, but they sometimes tend to be a bit basic. Have you ploughed through the manual fully? Mine is fully of useful stuff, otherwise just using the old SLR knowledge. I have been playing with my new toy and definitely need a wider angle lens.

[dave]

Have you ploughed through the manual fully?

sadly being a non-francophone the 'ohh hee-hohh hee-hohh' manual that came with my camera is not so useful to me, have not yet printed out the english one yet.

dis is me first SLR anall, so also some learning to do there and ting.

[Bonjoy]

It's massive! Do you carry it on your head like an African lady with a pot full of water?

[dave]

its not that big really lovejoy, its just very close to you.

[AndyR]

its not that big really lovejoy, its just very close to you.

He may have been looking at his screen through a pair of binoculars.

[Johnny Brown]

dave, you know there's a firmware upgrade already available? - gives you most of the changes that the D70s brought in.

[dave]

JB i had the firmware updated within 20mins of getting it out of the box.

[Falling Down]

dave, you know there's a firmware upgrade already available? - gives you most of the changes that the D70s brought in.

Ooh I didn't know that.... I have one of these bad boys too and like Dave said  (in so many different ways) they are really rather good.

[Johnny Brown]

JB i had the firmware updated within 20mins of getting it out of the box

No flies on Dave... though you missed the chance to get used to it as it was, and then get that new camera feeling all over again. Guess FD should be enjoying that one...

[dave]

the main change in the firmware is it make the menus look blinginger. the other stuff is stuff you're not basically going to able to notice visibly but is obviously better to have them, like some changes to the way it focuses better or summert. Obviously it don't make the screen 0.2" larger as per the D70s, but you can get round that by moving your head a fraction closer to the camera - hey presto bigger screen.

[Johnny Brown]

judging by that photo you are overdoing that a bit.

[Jim]

word up,
got me a d50 with the 18-55 lens for about 360 notes in singapore. new to slr type thingy but its a good camera so far.
Any useful tips or owt any one can offer me?
also any hints about format (ie started shooting in jpeg but moved onto raw NEF and photoshop won't touch them and I generally shy away from installing software that comes with stuff, in this case its nikon pictureproject 1.5)
cheers ya'll

[Bubba]

What version of PS are you running? New versions should be happy with RAW.

[Johnny Brown]

Photoshop cs comes with adobe bridge - open ps first then use this for browsing, then double click and you get a pre-process window that then allows you to open the images and save them as you wish.

[Jim]

What version of PS are you running? New versions should be happy with RAW.

come on now Bub's.... CS2 of course

turned out that I had to update the camera raw plugin to 3.2, twas only v3 that was on there which didn't support it
http://www.adobe.com/support/downloads/detail.jsp?ftpID=3067
for those that want the download page (free)

[SA Chris]

Any useful tips or owt any one can offer me?

If you are new to SLRs, learn how apertures and shutter sppeds work, as well as metering and focussing modes. Learning to bracket and under/overexpose is useful too.

And take loads of photos. Loads.

[Jim]

I intend to learn all about that shit, hopefully get some tips from johnny at the crag.
was meaning more about the D50 itself
is it best to shoot in raw mode due to better quality and editing or shoot in Jpeg for ease of viewing and processing, any views?

[SA Chris]

Depends how many pics you intend taking, and how good your software (got Photoshop?) and Hardware (got loads of memory?) is for processing the pics. Also how much memory you have available on the camera. If you are just shooting days out and weekends, I would go for RAW. If you are going away on holiday, I would go for JPEG.

[Bubba]

come on now Bub's.... CS2 of course

Do you find it runs like a dog? My copy of CS2 is slow as fook - apparantly there's some registry tweaks that help.

On my 10D, you can only use raw in the non-auto modes, so it's jpeg for auto, and raw for "proper" photography. Going to try and use raw as much as possible now though.

[Bonjoy]

Do you find it runs like a dog?

Could be worse...

[Jim]

got a 1 gig card so get 136 piccies when shooting raw and 285 when shooting in max jpeg. just noticed it'll shoot raw and do a large basic jpeg at the same time and still give 120 piccies, might be usefull for quick viewing.
Only really use photoshop for resizing and cropping mainly so don't notice its slow but it is slow to start up but so was cs and 7. try d/ling a later version maybe

[dave]

is it best to shoot in raw mode due to better quality and editing or shoot in Jpeg for ease of viewing and processing, any views?

so far i'm only shooting jpegs.

[Jim]

Once you've processed the raw image, what do you recon is the best format to save them in, for quality and easy of further processing? jpegs, tiff etc..