[Stubbs]

Word. Was trying this problem on sunday and was having trouble working out the sequence. So i got to a point where i had my right hand on the polished boss thing in the roof, and my left on the sloper on the lip, down from the eponymous ring, and my left heel locked in on the starting handhold. I assumed the next move was right hand up to the goodish holds below the ring, but it seemed desperate moving out of that position.

Don't know if i just lacked the necessary reach (i'm 5'7"), beef, or beta?

Any help,

Cheers.

[Johnny Brown]

Its a long time since I tried this, but from what i remember it sounds like you're on the right track. It's heels n' beef all the way, bit of a wild swing if you get the ring

[cofe]

heels n beef stubbs, heels n beef. step aside johnny:



from what i remember it's up to polished pinch which isn't half as bad as it looks and then left hand on aretey thing (big white hold on photo innit - nothing there) with toe/foot hooks or summert. then left heel up and unleash the left hand to the ring like you're the illest townie at ilkley that day.

probably worth celebrating with a hot dog and cup of tea from the cafe thing.

p.s. dab isn't fab so get them legs up...

[Stubbs]

Cool, so you sacked off those high right handholds and just went off the sloper ont' lip and the pinch? Beef indeed! So was the left foot on the first handholds (lowest chalky ones) or was it somehow hooked up into that undercut one (next chalked on up)?

Am psyched to go back and give it a slap now.

ps like the onlooking tourists in your pic - did you go for the easy victory topout, or finish where you are?

[cofe]

think left foot was on the undercut crack thing an inch into photo - not a handhold. then right foot comes up to match and left heel goes round. probably could use the other holds but it might end up just being harder to get to em. pulled up a bit from ring, probably locked off, and then dropped off. topout is dead easy if you can be bothered.

remember to get a hot dog.

[Johnny Brown]

pulled up a bit from ring, probably locked off, and then dropped off.

Jeez, so close, you must have been well peeved! Psyched to get back for the tick though?

[cofe]

just as soon as the boulder is airlifted to burbage...

[Stubbs]

Unfortunately hot dogs are not allowed in my vegan diet, so i might just have to stick with a cup of (black) tea.  :wink:

As to the grade - V9 in the guide, but i have heard it is probably easier? (please try and resist any standard yorkshire grading replies.)

[cofe]

As to the grade - V9 in the guide, but i have heard it is probably easier?

stubbs, what does it say in print in the YBG..this is gospel. likewise the keel etc... :wink:

vegan? i.e. no beef?  at all? :shock:

[Stubbs]

stubbs, what does it say in print in the YBG..this is gospel

Now now, just because you have a new guide in the Peak that has corrected the inaccuracies of your old one.... maybe we will soon...

vegan? i.e. no beef?  at all? :shock:

That's right, all my beef is soy based
 :wink:

[cofe]

stubbs, what does it say in print in the YBG..this is gospel

Now now, just because you have a new guide in the Peak that has corrected the inaccuracies of your old one....

there's still plenty in there, the trick is knowing where to look...

[Ru]

there's still plenty in there, the trick is knowing where to look...

Anyone would think I hadn't asked your opinion first.

It's amazing really, you pass the whole book through the Upgrade Randomizer before publication and you still get soft touches creeping through.

Ringpiece is font 7a.

[cofe]

there's still plenty in there, the trick is knowing where to look...

Anyone would think I hadn't asked your opinion first.

i hadn't done brad pit SS then...  actually only spotted 1 or 2 and the rest is all pretty accurate i reckon. for my grade anyway.

ringpiece 7a? chinny chin chin. i thought 7b ish. maybe hard 7a+.

[Ru]

Realistically 7b is fair.

[Stubbs]

Was hoping you were trying to live up to your rank of chief sandbagger with your first stab at the grade!

[cofe]

i fear he was deadly serious first time round.

[Stubbs]

I just hope Ru doesn't take it upon himself to do a Yorkshire guide - think i'd probably lose all my hard ticks  :shock:

[wobble]

Hopefully this isn't a standard Yorkshire grading reply, whatever that is. Anyway, had to reply to Johnny Brown giving advice on climbing horizontal roofs at Ilkley – that's definitely a first.  I think I can get away with giving him abuse this week as he's currently dangling off an obscure cliff on a very obscure island in Scotland.  

Think you're being a bit harsh with the grade still tho Ru – we've had a messed up grading system for the past five years in Yorkshire with most things being overgraded – doesn't mean we should now undergrade everything…  Most of the V9's in the book in my opinion are Font 7B+ (i.e one grade out) – e.g Jerry's Arete (Bridestones), Fight on Black (Widdop), Blockbuster, Secret Seventh (Caley), Andy Brown's Wall (Earl).  Personally I think Ringpiece is in that category (I can think of quite a few easier 7B+'s in font and no harder 7B's….)

In fact downgrading everything by 1 (or just converting differently from V grades) works pretty well for a lot of the guide.  E.g Stu's roof (Almscliff) – V11 goes to 7C+, Terry (Caley) – V10 goes to 7C, The Fly (Crookrise) – V8 goes to 7B, Jason's roof (Crookrise) – V12 goes to 8A…  Could go on a while but you get the picture.

Of course as other people on here seem to think, a few (but not too many) need downing by 2 grades – obvious examples being the Keel (Almscliff) – V10 goes to 7B+, The Bulb (just next to it!) – V12 goes to 7C+, Red Baron Roof (Shipley) – V11 goes to 7C.

Unfortunately there are actually a handful of correct grades in the book which confuses the issue a little…!!! E.g Larger Larger Larger (Earl) – V9 = 7C, Zoo York (Caley) – V10 = 7C+ (this is hard for 7C+ and some think 8A).

And then there are quite a few utterly random grades thrown in for good measure (Not all overgraded as a few people have suggested, there are some definite sandbags in there…  e.g Ralph (Caley) – V9 goes to Font 8A!!! This isn't suprising as a lot of the harder problems had had very few ascents back in 2000…

No doubt some people will disagree with all the above, but Yorkshire is definitely in need of a new bouldering guide – hopefully if we can get a bit of consensus, we can get some kind of consistency in the next one (preferably using Font grades - V grades seem to mean different things just about everywhere they are used around the world…).  R u up for in Ru?  Or has the doing the Peak one put you off… Would do it myself, but think I'm busy this lifetime…!!!

 :D

[gollum]

Think this needs setting in a bit of a historical context. I agree that some of the grades are out by a bit, but generally at the time at the upper end the Font/V Grade comparison was just a little different and 7C was viewed as V10 and 8A was V12. The Bulb was graded because at the time it was considered by many to be much harder than The Real Keel which was seen as 8A.

The reality is if anyone cares that much then rewrite it, if not JFD it. The grade doesn't affect the quality of the problem one  iota. In Yorkshire some are good, some are bad. The reality is that there are only two grades, those you can do and those you can't.

For what its worth I still think that Red Baron Roof is 8A, but that is because I am a technical incompetent and think that my feet are just added weight. A better way will get a different grade and that is how it should be.........if you could add grades for stupidity, then I'd be cranking.

[Stubbs]

Hopefully this isn't a standard Yorkshire grading reply, whatever that is.

Was in regard to the standard (joke) peak boulderer reply of removing at least two grades.

Good answer though, seems like you've been around and done a lot of the hard stuff, just make sure you're in a position to get your opinion heard when it is time for a new guide.

[wobble]

I totally agree with you gollum. I also used to think V10 = 7C, V12 = 8A etc, but things seem to have shifted a bit since then. And I wasn't complaining about the previous guide in the slightest. Most of the problems which are out (e.g the Bulb, Red Baron Roof etc) had had very very few ascents back then. So not only had standard grades not emerged but neither had the best sequences in most cases. (I had thought Red Baron Roof was next to impossible until Andy Brown showed me the knowledge!!! )

And of course, the grades don't really matter that much. All I was suggesting is that if someone is considering doing a new guide (which is definitely long overdue - not because the grades need changing but because shed loads of awesome new problems have been done since then...), then it would be cool to get some kind of consistency and not start giving problems like Ringpiece 7A (I know he was taking the piss but nevertheless...)

 :D

[gollum]

if someone is considering doing a new guide (which is definitely long overdue - not because the grades need changing but because shed loads of awesome new problems have been done since then...

'appen an old style supplement would do it, after all, the current guide already gives the line for existing probs.

I agree that lots of stuff was very recent when the guide was being worked on and had not had many ascents, time settles all things..............

[wobble]

seems like you've been around and done a lot of the hard stuff

Hmmm.  Just re read that rant from yesterday and think I should have made it clear that whilst I have done the other examples, the two 8As I mentioned I haven't done, although I've spent a lot of time trying both… (Jason's Roof at Crookrise and Ralph at Caley).  They just seemed like good examples of what I was trying to say (not very successfully on second reading – not really used to this new fangled technology – it's a bit too easy to write a whole bunch of gibberish and click submit!).

Ralph sprung to mind as the most obviously undergraded problem I could think of, and I also brought it up cos I was hoping someone might know something about it…  (perhaps should have been the subject of another thread tho…) Have to admit, I had thought it was a wind up when the guide came out.  The book suggests you can climb into those flakes from right or left – can't see how on earth you would climb in from the left (would be happy to be proven wrong!). Tim Clifford did the thing last year (climbed in from the right) and thought Font 8A.  Is this what Christian Durkin did and just massively undergraded???  Or am I just being a muppet and missing something…  Are you out there Christian or does anyone else know the score?

As for Jason's roof, I was just trying to give examples of well known problems across a broad range of grades where if you translate V10 to 7C, etc etc, then the book is pretty accurate.  (The consensus of people I know who have done this think 8A and I've spent enough time struggling under that roof – getting really close but no cigar, to agree).

Was in regard to the standard (joke) peak boulderer reply of removing at least two grades.

I guess this standard response on this forum that everything in Yorkshire is massively overgraded is what I was trying to argue against.  If you (as gollum suggested) equate V10 and 7C then most of the guide is pretty accurate and probably as many problems are undergraded as overgraded which is about as much of a consensus on grades as you're ever gonna get…

'appen an old style supplement would do it

Yep, that would do the trick.

[Stubbs]

I am embarrassed to do ask, as it is one of my local crags, but where's ralph?

Perhaps a supplement of new and old problems of V8 or V9 and above would straighten out a lot of the grades, without taking the massive amount of effort that rewriting the entire guide would entail.

[squeek]

A grade thread with informed posts from people who've actually attempted and done a lot of the problems!  Whatever next...  

I don't climb hard enough to say anything about these hard problems, but if 'Peak boulderers' knock 2 grades off everything in yorkshire, the lower grade boulderers must have a hard time.

Re: Supplement

Are there many more new areas and problems that aren't covered on yorkshiregrit.com?  I know it's not comprehensive for every crag, but it's pretty good, and if something is missing if you sent JonP an email with a picture and grade I'm sure he'd put it on there.  Or maybe there's a lot more about than I know of.

[Stubbs]

don't get me wrong, i'm down with yorkshire grit, but it is no where near comprehensive, and i think a lot of stuff gets done or repeated, but the news doesn't filter through to that site.

Plus if the places aren't your local crags, and you don't know where the hard lines are, you don't want to be printing off half a website every time you want to go to the crag!

[cofe]

about the overgrading nonsense - it's only a few isolated examples and this is the case everywhere. i can't believe i'm getting drawn into a grade debate. fortunately i've forgotton what my original point was.

[Stubbs]

Something about beef heels i think

[Bonjoy]

[wobble]

Ralph - its in the guide (at V9!!!) - Totally awesome wall round the arete to the right of suckers wall (the easy chips up the block opposite the sugarloaf).  Basically there's a line of hanging flakes with no obvious way of reaching them.  To quote the guide "The big wall to the right of the arete.  Gain the side pulls from the L or R.  The direct start awaits an ascent".  

Go and look at it and see if that makes any sense to you!!! The rumour I heard (no idea where it started) was that Chrisian Durkin had done this about the same time he did Zoo York.  I don't know of anyone else who got anywhere near it until Tim did it last year and thought Font 8a.  He did it via a really crappy crimp on the right (not at all obvious) and rocked up to the two finger pocket left of the hanging flake and then up into the sidepulls (hard cos footholds are pants)...

Anyway - if the description in the book is right (think a lot of people had assumed this was a wind up as it had seemed very improbable) - and Christian climbed this wall from the left and right - he's officially my hero and either I can't work out sequences to save my life (quite possible) or he massively undergraded it.

Would be cool if anyone out there knows where ACD's description came from...

As for YorkshireGrit.com – I've only had a brief look round it - think its only just starting to get well known - so although some of the very recent stuff which has been done is in there (and I think just about all the areas are covered), over the last 5 years in yorkshire, there has been the equivalent of a book full of new problems (Just about all the projects in the old guide got done + one heck of a lot more – just about all of which aren't on that site...)  Looks like a well put together site tho - hopefully if more start to use it, it might get a bit more comprehensive...  There's been so much tho, it might take some time...

i can't believe i'm getting drawn into a grade debate. fortunately i've forgotton what my original point was.

Hmm, I don't really know how I ended up in that myself – I started with a two liner abusing Johnny Brown for pretending he would ever be seen dead bending down to climb anything and ended with a half page rant – I must be bored…

[Bonjoy]

For my money I think yorshire is well due a new (preferably non-rockfax) guidebook, with new grades, photos and descriptions. Supplements are all very well but who wants to carry round two guidebooks. A new book is always good for building up psyche to visit new areas or re-visit old areas with a fresh perspective.

[Stubbs]

Yeah cool, the one to the left of the pinch right? I was actually looking at that the other night, as i remembered seeing in the book the grade wasn't too ridiculous, but i agree, there doesn't appear to be any holds at the start at all.

As to a new Yorkshire guide - possibly an even bigger job than the new peak guide? Would have to be pretty damn selective to avoid ending up as big as the grit route guide!

[uptown]

Yeh, let's have a new Yorkshire guide - maybe pheonix wall and a little sparkle will get some attention then - keep the cobwebs off them.
I came up with a Yorkshire graded list back in march '05 with over 220 independant 7a and above problems. Needless to say it's now September and it's grown to over 250. Let's keep the current development pace up - use Jon's excellent site to pass the knowledge, and get decent consensus opinions on 'what's what' before anyone attempts a new guide.
Any suitor needs to chat to me and me mates before authoring said guide - see Greg's guide thread to catch my drift! :wink:

[Bonjoy]

Bring on the list! Is you going to post up the gradelist on here or yorkshiregrit.com? Are they ranked in difficulty or list it just a straight list of all the 7s and 8s?

[uptown]

As a taster jon, peshmurga is on page 4 of 6.

[uptown]

Ooo, that does bring out a glaring omission though - was it 'Jesus Jelly Mould' and do you think 7a from standing and 7a+ from sitter Jon????

[uptown]

I left it off 'the list'.

[Bonjoy]

That's right name and grade both correct. Which one's Pheonix wall?

[uptown]

See http://www.yorkshiregrit.com/video.html?id=panorama__phoenix_wall

[Bonjoy]

I remember now! Looks mega. Seen any repeats yet?

[uptown]

Someone voted V9 for it on YG - don't know if they repeated it or not though. I thought F7b+ but try fitting that into a V grade!!!
BTW - 'the list' is in condescending order of difficulty.

[uptown]

I seem to have digressed from the original thread - The list 'deems' Ringpiece 7b for those who care - I just noticed the good weather - I'm off to the 'A' to try adding another to the list!

[Stubbs]

Assuming 7a = V6 still, there's a couple of the new rocky valley v6's that definitely should not make it onto the list.

7b for ringpiece? damn i'm gonna have to try harder then!

[Ru]

Doing lists is great, I did one before the peak guide was done. Id love to see it and add my two pennth on yorks grades.

[Jim]

come on uptown girl, stop teasing us with this talk of 'list's', get it posted up and let the grading debate begin!

[uptown]

Yeah yeah, all in good time - off to africa tomorrow for a couple of weeks so you'll all have to wait!

[andy_e]

I originally happened upon this thread in a quest for beta:

For my money I think yorshire is well due a new (preferably non-rockfax) guidebook, with new grades, photos and descriptions.

And 2 years later there's one due!

[Stubbs]

The beta that worked for me in the end was:

-Sit start matched in juggy sidepull, jam left foot in crack at the back
-Right hand up to big polished pinch
-Left hand into crimpy undercut
-Left foot heel lock in juggy sidepull
-Left hand out to sloper on arete
-right heel round onto the ramp
-release left heel (cos i'm short) right hand up to higher pinchy hold
-left hand through to jug - helicopter.
-Easy highball victory romp up to top of calf in front of wowed townies.....

[andy_e]

Awesome. Cheers!

[chappers]

andi, you are tall enough to get it by throwing for the ring with left hand while your left foot is still heel into starting hand holds like i did. i also sacked off any of the crimp in roof, just straight to sloper. mad swing eh?!

[andy_e]

Quality, by the time i got round to trying it i didn't have much juice left after battering myself on first arete. Ilkley seems to be the place to go if you like swings!