[Carnage]

Heres a little vid of a buddy of ours on Black Magic V8 at Crumbly (I sent this the other week  :D)

[r-man]

That is such an awesome roof. The holds don't look too bad - is the difficulty all in the body tension?

[Carnage]

Its hard to see but after the initial undercut move, the next hold you throw too is pretty bad and the drop down after the toe hook is a little tricky (read awkward). Its pretty low in the grade V8. Some awesome problems there, nothing below V5 and mostly above V8 - Sushi Train, (another V8- pretty solid) is one of the best I've ever done not as steep but great moves and an awesome V11 extension (I think Bonjoys done it and will prob downgrade it!   ) that I'm gonna work on cos feels pretty do-able.

[Bonjoy]

Black Magic is cool, love that feet first hanging on toohooks business. There is also an amazing V9ish thing between Black Magic and Sushi Train with even more extreme feet first skull-duggery (I forget the name).
 As for Mushi Brain, how many V11 have you tried in the UK which felt anything like "pretty do-able"? You do the Maths.

[account_inactive]

Stop that right now lovejoy or DrWong will get upset that you're downgrading his tick list;)

[Bonjoy]

Where is the Wong these days? Haven't heard or seen owt since that day out on Burb Sizzle.

[Carnage]

As for Mushi Brain, how many V11 have you tried in the UK which felt anything like "pretty do-able"? You do the Maths.

Hahaha! I knew you'd say that!

Out of interest,  what would give you  for these probs then-

Sushi ?
Mushi ?
Chaos ?
Black Magic ?
Blacker Magic (the '9 version') ?

[account_inactive]

Wong is getting ready for marriage.  Going to go over for the wedding in September me thinks.  He's off to Sweden this weekend to see Crellis (bastard).

Stu, I reakon that they are all around the same grade as 'if the shoe fits' and l'aom abu thingy at the balkans

[Carnage]

D, when you over in Sept? Let me know if need somewhere to crash.

[Bonjoy]

It's been agood while since I was over there, but for what it's worth:
 Sushi - V6 (7a) - maybe easy V7 at a push
 Mushi - V9 (7c) - comparable in style and difficulty with Powerband
 Chaos - V8/9 (7b+) - sequencey and almost as hard as Mushi
 Black Magic - V7 (7a+)
 Blacker - never tried it

[Carnage]

Oooooh Bonjoy you're mean.

I knew you'd be harsh, but not that harsh!!  

[Bonjoy]

Put it this way I come from Sheffield which has a very large climbing scene, very good climbing walls, lots of home cellars and is surrounded by rock and still I only know a very few climbers capable of V10 or above. Sydney has a small climbing scene, reasonable walls, much less rock and yet V10 and above seems to be the norm for the average fairly hard working boulderer. Either there's steroids in the water system or the grades are Swiss :wink: .

[Carnage]

What you say does make sense and because I haven't done anything over V8 I can't really comment on the harder stuff. Although I would say Sushi felt harder than all V6/7 's I've done before and certainly harder than Black Magic.

But then I've just proved your point,  as if I haven't done harder than V8, why would I think I had a chance on an 11  :wink:  

Ah well, harsh but fair!  :cry:  

[HAHA]

Put it this way I come from Sheffield which has a very large climbing scene, very good climbing walls, lots of home cellars and is surrounded by rock and still I only know a very few climbers capable of V10 or above. Sydney has a small climbing scene, reasonable walls, much less rock and yet V10 and above seems to be the norm for the average fairly hard working boulderer. Either there's steroids in the water system or the grades are Swiss :wink: .

lol, your logic seems to have been proved wrong in just about every sport us aussies put our hand to.  Whats the sporting population of england compared to australia??  Yet somehow we still manage to put you to shame in every sporting activity, even your beloved soccer.

[tommytwotone]

nb: last one-day cricket match not included in above statement. and probably not the forthcoming Ashes tests.

[Bubba]

Shutup HAHA you asshole.

[Bonjoy]

Put it this way I come from Sheffield which has a very large climbing scene, very good climbing walls, lots of home cellars and is surrounded by rock and still I only know a very few climbers capable of V10 or above. Sydney has a small climbing scene, reasonable walls, much less rock and yet V10 and above seems to be the norm for the average fairly hard working boulderer. Either there's steroids in the water system or the grades are Swiss :wink: .

lol, your logic seems to have been proved wrong in just about every sport us aussies put our hand to.  Whats the sporting population of england compared to australia??  Yet somehow we still manage to put you to shame in every sporting activity, even your beloved soccer.

 I suspect this logic/ego might have something to do with the way you grade....:wink: .  Besides, on top of what I said before I also speak from experience, I have been to Oz and I found your probs too easy for the grade (five V10s in just over a week, which is about as many as i've done in the UK in 16 years!). Not just compared to the UK but compared to the rest of the world! Do you really think you are the best boulderers in the world? :D

[Bonjoy]

Please unban him Bubba, I want to hear his reply

[account_inactive]

Put it this way I come from Sheffield which has a very large climbing scene, very good climbing walls, lots of home cellars and is surrounded by rock and still I only know a very few climbers capable of V10 or above. Sydney has a small climbing scene, reasonable walls, much less rock and yet V10 and above seems to be the norm for the average fairly hard working boulderer. Either there's steroids in the water system or the grades are Swiss :wink: .

lol, your logic seems to have been proved wrong in just about every sport us aussies put our hand to.  Whats the sporting population of england compared to australia??  Yet somehow we still manage to put you to shame in every sporting activity, even your beloved soccer.

 I suspect this logic/ego might have something to do with the way you grade....:wink: .  Besides, on top of what I said before I also speak from experience, I have been to Oz and I found your probs too easy for the grade (five V10s in just over a week, which is about as many as i've done in the UK in 16 years!). Not just compared to the UK but compared to the rest of the world! Do you really think you are the best boulderers in the world? :D

Likewise, the love of joyis speaking the truth.  Not all of your problems are the wrong grade but there are glaring exceptions.  Every area has soft ticks but unfortunatly nobody seems to want to down grade in the land of Auz.  I think we should have a wip round and send Ru over  

[Bubba]

Ok bonnus joyuss, he's unbanned - HAHA, you've got a second chance but any more bullshit and you're banned for real. Please try hard not to be a botty hole.

[mitchleblanc]

I myself have done lots of V10s (well, not lots, but quite a few) and nearly all, when I was in the US and Canada, took me about 3 sessions of work. Arriving here in Sydney, I have since spent very similar amounts of time on most of the 10s I've tried here. Granted some went easily (Mushi = soft) but to say that everything is soft, that Sushi is a 6 (!!), etc, is being unrealistic. Further, Sushi is harder than Black Magic, there is absolutely not doubt about that. Everyone I've seen on it (Stu included) and my own experience supports that.. so you're not even being consistent!

I've actually seen very FEW people sending V10 out here. Actually, I have only climbed with a *single* one who has EVER climbed harder than 9.. Why do you think everyone sends hard problems? And as for quantity of rock.. how much rock do you need? I'm from a place with ONE terrible wall and NO bouldering, and I climb 10s.

Comparing to Sheffield, and comparing based on "population", isn't really valid, I think. Compared to areas like Squamish, Bishop, Yosemite (even Hong Kong) I think that the grades aren't so far out as to warrant the bad rap you're giving ALL of Australian grades.

A problem doesn't have to be HARD to warrant a given grade.. it has to be in line with everything else. Everything else. Not just local, undergraded problems.. It's just as likely that a problem would be soft as hard, and it could still be accurate..

But then, as Stu's winky icon states.. You're obviously known for being a harsh grader, so I'm sure this wasn't worth the typing time.

[Bonjoy]

I'm sure you are right about Sushi v Black Magic. It's four years I think now since I did them so memory of stuff is probably sketch.
 Perhaps the climbers I met in Oz were an unrepresentative sample. Some relatively weak people did seem to be 'shooting above their weight' numbers-wise though.
 To clarify, I don't think all probs in Oz are overgraded, just a significant amount. In general most probs under V7 or on vertical rock seemed spot on. I haven't been to Canada or the USA so I have no idea how the grades compare. Perhaps there is a universal problem that steep problems are overgraded in some areas (or undergraded in others).
 I shouldn't get drawn on this subject really, as i've already told enough ozzies what i reckon and i'm not interested in pissing anyone off (apart from HAHA). But maybe a bit of fairly light-hearted foreign goading might encourage a more international style of grading in future guides, who knows.

[account_inactive]

I blame Fred Nicole

[hongkongstuey]

Shutup HAHA you asshole.

banning him was a bit harsh Bubba, after all, he's mostly on the ball about english sporting performances....

[webbo]

Shutup HAHA you asshole.

banning him was a bit harsh Bubba, after all, he's mostly on the ball about english sporting performances....

but its not cricket to go on about how crap we are at cricket.

[Bubba]

banning him was a bit harsh Bubba, after all, he's mostly on the ball about english sporting performances....

His first post was designed to be offensive.

English sporting performance has nothing to do with bouldering grades in Oz.

I can't be bothered allowing dickheads to post here.

[tommytwotone]

hey, at least we ain't got no phat drugs cheats in our test side...

[a dense loner]

You're obviously known for being a harsh grader

can i point out that bonjoy is not a harsh grader. i need to know why people think he is

[Fingers of a Martyr]

Put it this way I come from Sheffield which has a very large climbing scene, very good climbing walls, lots of home cellars and is surrounded by rock and still I only know a very few climbers capable of V10 or above. Sydney has a small climbing scene, reasonable walls, much less rock and yet V10 and above seems to be the norm for the average fairly hard working boulderer. Either there's steroids in the water system or the grades are Swiss :wink: .

lol, your logic seems to have been proved wrong in just about every sport us aussies put our hand to.  Whats the sporting population of england compared to australia??  Yet somehow we still manage to put you to shame in every sporting activity, even your beloved soccer.

shut the fuck up. how on earth can you even begin to claim there is a similarity between 'soccer' (by the way it's called football pal) and any other team sports and climbing? jesus christ  :roll:

and quite frankly i hardly think you put us to shame at climbing. when the fuck did an aussie ever win a round of the world bouldering championships? and when did an aussie ever put something hard up in his own country never mind sum1 elses? from what i recall it took fred nicole and dai to come over and do anything groundbreaking in skippyland. :roll:

[Carnage]

My god, what have I started..............I got to bed and look what happens  

Fingers - Have you ever heard of Garth Miller?

Mitch & Dense - The winky wasn't that Bonjoy is generally a harsh grader at all. Its just that I've heard his views on Oz grades before and knew what to expect.  :D

I wasn't trying to start some big fight, I was just interested. Besides, if we're thinking about getting a new Sydney Guide together (the other being riddled with inaccuracies) its always good to get some outside input.

[duncan_macinnis]

Honestly, who gives a fuck about the grades?  Unless you climb solely for the gratification of having a good 8a.nu scorecard, does it really matter if stuff is soft for the grade?  

Bottom line is, its a good video, and (judging from the very small amount of it I can do) a good problem.  Call it VB if it makes you feel better.

[SA Chris]

I do. It's not anything to do with gratification (I do that in the comfort of my own bedroom). Most climbers put some value to grades, ranging from mild interest to rabid passion. They are a yardstick by with which to measure your own ability.

I reckon any climber who says they have no interest in grades whatsoever is talking shit.

[a dense loner]

fingers-that was a bit harsh too. it's no good getting into a slanging match across the pond. there are some very talented climbers over there, and some like the rest of us mortals.
when we say people like fred n dai have gone over n sent there hardest probs, we often forget that what has actually happened is joe public has been trying it for 2 years, got the beta figured out etc, then shows visiting wad, who just so happens to be that bit better who then sends, with the help of joe public. no man is an island. i love about a boy.
no argument about any amount of people climbin together holds water, some people love to train n climb alone, n climb much harder this way. of course it then becomes easier to doubt such people

[Carnage]

Thats true Dense,

And these big guns are all you often hear about in the media. There are plenty of strong boys here and home grown 'up' problems that are much less repeated which would suggest that they contain harder individual moves than those HMC link ups.

[cofe]

no man is an island. i love about a boy.

i'm ibiza.

[a dense loner]

bearing in mind tho, them HMC link-ups are for homs.

i would like to be phi phi

[a dense loner]

ps. only cos i can't do more than 3 moves on a roof