[gruff]

Sooo, A certain Mick Ryan spouting on other Fori(correct plural?) has inspired me to ask...

Which areas do you think are the softest, and which are the hardest?

I admit I'm not much of a traveller, so haven't experienced much out of my locality. However, from what I've heard, the peak is softish, Yorkshire is hardish/slightly fucked up. Northumberland is fucked up. Mixed reports of Lancashire.

Of course, grades are being changed so much these days I think that many of the areas are actually falling into some kind of consensus.

What do you reckon?

g

I always promised myself I'd never get involved in a shitty grades debate! But this is UKB, no dicks here(except for FH!)

[Doylo]

Well i'm a bit more travelled than you gruffudd and i reckon Peak is soft (apart from a few benchmark testpieces,) Yorkshires generally Ok aslong as you don't go by the guidebook cos everything gets v9 and the Keel gets V10! Lancashires softish, Northumberlands sort of random and Wales is generally spot on with a few minor discrepancies (in my opinion). Why is Mick Ryan such a cock, who the fuck cares what he thinks of British grading sitting on his patronising throne in bishop. Jeez if i lived in California i wouldn't spend all day on the interent. :twisted:

[dave]

I hear a lot of this "Peak is soft" shite all the time, and to be honest i think it is garbage. People are only lead to belive its soft cos they are using the B-grades from Peak Bouldering, which were almost "experimental" in their use in a major guide, and a true comparison table hadn't been drawn up. Its not that peak problems are soft, its just that a consistent gradeing sytems hasn't yet been universally applied there yet. I've bouldered in Wales, Northumberland, Yorkshire and The Peak, and i can honestly say I've not noticed any real differences.

Plus cos the Peak has all this "Hard Grit" reputation, people like nothing more than to do a problem/route then spray about it being easy on cocktalk. Also from what i've seen there are certainly no less soft-touches in Nwales, in fact quite a lot of the problems I've done there felt giveaways. But then maybe the style suits me.

And the whole "YOrkshire is hard" crap that is purputrated by some locals to further their egos is garbage, if yorkshire is as hard as they recon then it's just badly graded i'm afraid, which is nothing to be proud of.

P.S. Yes MR is a cock

[fatboySlimfast]

uve hit the nail on the head there dave!
people are still using the grading in the rockfax guide and converting it and then saying its easy for said grade. Its not an exact science anyway.
, i remember 2nd day on a prob in Southern states given v6 by the locals which took me so much time and energy they all did it first go!Yet twenty yards away a prob that i flashed given V5,loads of em failed on???!!!I did/failed on  some shit in N.Z which felt frigging nails
Does it make any diffrence anyway
Ive spent days on Quents dyno at stoney but i cant do it, other people can do it evry go first go, thats why we boulder surely.


P.s Mick Ryan is a spraying fool

[nik at work]

Well I don't pretend to understand bouldering grades, or even know the grades of most problems I try but I would say that:
1) I find the Peak easiest, but I think this is just because I am used to it and also because of the B/V confusion.
2) I have never been to Wales or Northumberland but I have been told that Northumberland is spanky spank hard and Wales has some softer problems. Whether this is true or not I dunno, just repeating what has been said to me.
3) Lancashire seems pretty soft on the grit side of things and I've not sampled the limestone 'delights'.
4) Yorkshire always spanks me big time, dunno why but it just does. Maybe I need to get used to it a bit more, it feels very different (not neccesarily harder) to Peak grit.
Anyway I know shite all and I'm not even a proper 'boulderer' so I'll leave this one for those in the know.....

P.S. MR - windup merchant extrordinaire.

[dobbin]

Yeah! Fight the powa! Fight the powas that be! :bash:

[Doylo]

At the end of the day though dave, loadsa stuff in t peak has a known font or V-grade and a lot of the stuff is a grade or two or three out. I agree that B-grades fuck it up. Whats needed is a total overhaul of peak bouldering using v-grades. Just out of interest which problems in Wales have you found soft?

[dave]

I think peak should be done with font grades personally, but hey....

I may have just dropped on approachable ones, but wales things i found soft were the minimum, fast cars, jawbreaker, closer, grapes of raf, gnasher, beaver cleaver, lipstick, the pinch (sheep pen) but I understand some of these have since been downgraded, which is fair enough. I'm not saying everything in wales is easy, just that the myth that is being perpetuated be some that yorkshire and wales are hard and the peak is easy is pure ego-fiction - everywhere is largely the same, even font has some horrendous soft-touches.

But remember kids, as sharma says, its not about the math. :wink:

[Doylo]

Yeah some of them have been downgraded, Beaver Cleavers v7, gnashers v6, Pinch V7, they'd all be at least those grades in the peak probably harder! Anyway Sharma told me he only does that no grading thing for publicity, he's well physced for ticking really!

[fatboySlimfast]

Have you read this???
http://www.planetfear.com/climbing/forum/t.html?t=1448
wat a load of fuking toss
  :roll:
this is eaxctly the kind of crap that  bouldering can do without
arguing over grades and slagging each other from different areas.
Fucking winds me up!
And it seems to be starting here..........
careful boys

[Scouse D]

This is a very silly discussion. Rather like "my dad's harder than your dad". It strikes me that most people on this site think it's a silly discussion- hence nobody is voting.

[dave]

Scouse I'm hearing you on FM - Grades don't really matter, even less so in bouldering than routes. Only serve as a guide to what is worth attempting, or picking an area to visit on a roadtrip, nothing more. Oh yes and ego-wanking.....

[Doylo]

Yeah my dad is harder than your dad. What ya sayin?

[Bubba]

How about a problems database like they've got going at Rockfax? Or would that just be gay?

I think it's a good idea- what do the rest of you think?

The existing new problems db on this site only contains a few problems that people send in. The main enemy here is time, as it takes ages to put in problem info, and I do have a big backlog of new problems to enter, courtesy of Si Panton.

The idea was to firstly, extend the existing db to allow grade voting, as you can on rockfax / yorkshiregrit.com, and then as time allows, to add existing old problems to the database to have a complete resource. Any volunteers to help enter data to the db?

[nik at work]

Why not have it automatically enter.
I have a db of hard grit routes (everything E6 and above) the plan is to have a website that allows people to add comments, and grade adjustments/votes etc. This would all happen 'live'. I.e. someone submits a comment and it is available immediately (photos and videos would be a seperate issue)
Yes this is prone to abuse but at least the info would get up there, and if you only allow registered users to input the info then it's easy as pie to find out who's fucked your db and send round the heavies.
I have the backend scripts all ready for this, just need to do the design and sort out hosting. But you could use a similar system for boulder problems. In fact if you want you are welcome to use my script - trouble is it's asp not php. A php rewrite shouldn't be too tricky though...(famous last words)
Was actually thinking of doing this alongside the routes db, but as the routes thing hasn't happened yet I wouldn't hold ya breath...

[Bubba]

Adding the comments and votes live wouldn't be difficult, but I wouldn't allow live entering of new problems, as they need to be screened.

It could be done on a membership only basis, as like you say that would lessen the potential for abuse. It might even be possible to link it in to the forum memberships to avoid having two sets of members.

Thanks for the offer of the scripts but I tend to do everything in java/jsp  - if you need hosting and you don't need a vast amount of space then I might be able to help you out.

The main problem is time at the moment - I'm working on a couple of other websites as well as this one and as this one isn't paying me anything, it tends to suffer as a result - ah well, I'll get it all sorted eventually!

[nik at work]

Thanks for the offer of hosting, but to be honest I am suffering more from time than lack of hosting options. Also I'd need a whopper amount of space (LOTS of video).

[dobbin]

Perhaps a database of problems, descriptions and grades is overkill? It would be interesting to see how a database simply of problem names and grade is all that is necessary. Allow registered users the option to vote a grade up or down and see the results. That would be both simple and relatively easy to implement. Go to it webgeeks!

Grades are merely a guide, an indication of what to expect from a problem, you pick grades to suit your level - most of the time you can see whether something is hard or easy, but in the upper levels you need an indicator to tell you whether you are missing something. Grades are easier to remember than the moves on a problem, if you can attach a label to a problem then you can compare it long after you've done it. Or perhaps I smoke to much weed and should pay more attention.

The grading debate rears its ugly head once again, like the endless angry top roping threads on CockTalk they serve only to debase climbing and all that we love it for. Some people love to stir up an argument, be it about climbing or some facet of. Leave 'em to it, whilst they argue the toss about one problem, I'm gonna get it done and go find another one! Wheres the ashtray?  :wink:

[fatboySlimfast]

word dobbin
fuk the grades get wit the bouldering
 

[Pantontino]

I do feel kind of silly allowing that cock Ryan to wind me up, but I was actually more angry with Gareth and Ian for bitching behind my back.

Anyway, I don't think the newly assessed grades in Wales are any harder than the newly assessed grades anywhere else. People just talk shit to pump up their egos. Nowadays there is so much travelling and cross consensus of opinion that soft touches don't last more than a month at most.

On a slightly more positive note can somebody come and repeat my new problem in the Pass, I'm not sure what grade it is (but I'll start my bid at, say V15).

Cheers, Simon.

[Norton Sharley]

boys, boys, boys,

Mick R has perfected the art of winding people up for years.  Sometimes it can be amusing, sometimes it pisses people off, but if it weren't for him you wouldn't have modern guides and grading systems.  Just chill ...

[mozzer]

And fair play to him, he put up Comedy at Kilnsey.

But he is very good at winding up...

[Stu Littlefair]

I do feel kind of silly allowing that cock Ryan to wind me up, but I was actually more angry with Gareth and Ian for bitching behind my back.

......

Cheers, Simon.

Hi Simon,

Not wanting to kick up a dust-storm, but perhaps Ian & Gareth "bitched behind your back" because the climbers in N Wales are (understandably) a bit sensitive about overgrading claims. I remember a while back I answered one of your internet threads about grades in Wales with my honest opinions. For my sins I received personal insults and threats from certain N Wales activists. I think, and hope, that this was light hearted, but it doesn't come across well on the internet, and I'd certainly avoid mentioning if I found any soft touches in Wales these days, better to take the tick and run.

Just my wee thought.

Stu

[Pantontino]

Stu, I'm not sure I remember the specific thread you are referring to (no doubt it can be dragged from the vaults for inspection), but I'm sure the insults and 'threats' were spoken in jest or rough humour. if you sensed an edge to the comments then maybe that's just a reflection of how we in the N Wales scene are getting a little weary of a succession of johnny-come-latelys shooting their mouths off and putting down the place that we all love. As I said earlier, if I actually saw some impressive performances (I haven't) I might take this criticism more seriously.

It seems to me that the top boys (say the likes of Malc, Gaskins et al) or the ordinary joe-keen boulderers don't feel the need to 'spray', yet the wannabees and not quite top league boys always want to make some noise- perhaps to make up for their lack of performance.

I think when you see the new guide you'll realise how harsh we have been. If you can still come over here and warm up on any of this lot (to paraphrase Gareth), then you really will be the superstar (that you always wanted to be)

V8

1.   Sleep Deprivation (Cromlech Roadside) – Dave Noden
2.   The Sting (Cromlech Roadside) – Chris Davies
3.   Superior Air (Cromlech Lefthand) – Johnny Dawes
4.   Arachnophobia (Cromlech Central) – Kristian Clemmow
5.   Witch’s Knickers (Grooves Boulder) – Chris Davies
6.   Message To Rudy (Upper Satellites) – Mark Katz
7.   The Confederate (Upper Satellites) – Kristian Clemmow
8.   Willy 2 Goes (The Meadow) – Will Perrin
9.   5 Knuckle Shuffle (Beyond the Dome) – Kristian Clemmow
10.   Jerry’s Wall (Carreg Wastad Boulders) – Jerry Moffatt
11.   Nick’s Sexual Problem (Cwm Glas Bach) – Nick Dixon
12.   Dave's Problem (CY Bustach) - Dave Rudkin
13.   The Traverse (Super Boulder) – John Redhead
14.   The Gimp (Caseg Boulders) – Neil Dyer
15.   DDT – Toe Dragon (Sheep Pen Boulders) - ?
16.   Lily Savage (George’s Crack Area) – Nige Harris
17.   Boneyard (Caseg Fraith Lower) – Chris Davies
18.   Smackhead (Gallt Yr Ogof) – Paul Higginson
19.   Original Traverse (Plas Y Brenin) – Simon Panton
20.   Slim (Split Infinity) – Chris Davies
21.   Split-Youth (Split Infinity) – Neil Dyer
22.   Whisky Bitch (Pil Box Wall) – Chris Davies
23.   Chocolate Dip (Pil Box Wall) – Kristian Clemmow
24.   Drive By (Marine Drive) – Patch Hammond
25.   Andromeda (Manor Crag) – Dave Redpath
26.   Mussel Bound – Boulders (Angel Bay) – Simon Panton
27.   Caveman (Little Orme) – Sam Cattell
28.   Too Pumpy For Grumpy (Little Orme) – Kristain Clemmow
29.   Kung Fu (Roadrunner) – Mark Katz
30.   Truth sds area 2 (Porth Ysgo) – Paul Higginson

V8+

1.   Rampless (Cromlech Roadside) - ?
2.   Scoop Traverse (Cromlech Roadside) – Ed Brown
3.   Full Backside Traverse (Cromlech Roadside) - ?
4.   The Groove (The Barrel) - ?
5.   The Traverse (The Barrel) – Jerry Moffatt
6.   The Cable Guy (Jerry’s Roof) – Zeb Krunz
7.   Bus Stop (Jerry’s Roof) - ?
8.   Problem 6 (Ynys Ettws) – Mark Evans
9.   Wavelength – Leo Houlding
10.   Zen Arcade (The Meadow) – Mark Katz
11.   The Traverse (Coed Doctor Cutting) – Mark Evans
12.   The Prow (Clogwyn Y Bustach) – Ben Pritchard
13.   Traverse-Spring Juice Link (Super Boulder) – John Redhead
14.   Don’t Think, Feel (Caseg Boulders) – Mark Katz
15.   DDT – Dog Shooter (Sheep Pen Boulders) - ?
16.   Animal Magnetism (Caseg Fraith Upper) – Sam Catell
17.   The Organ Grinder (Split Infinity) – Philip Stubbins
18.   Bellpig (Split Infinity) – Pete Robins
19.   Mr Blonde (Manor Crag) – Sam Catell
20.   Papa Big Punch – LW (Angel Bay) – Andy Harris
21.   Sonic Boom – Boulders (Angel Bay) – Simon Panton
22.   Wierdo (Little Orme) – Nige Harris
23.   Pet Sounds – area 4 (Porth Ysgo) – Pete Robins

Cheers, Simon.

[Bubba]

It seems to me that the top boys (say the likes of Malc, Gaskins et al) or the ordinary joe-keen boulderers don't feel the need to 'spray', yet the wannabees and not quite top league boys always want to make some noise- perhaps to make up for their lack of performance.

I agree Simon - In all the years I've known the climbing scene, that's always been the case - it's always the wannabees who are the ones who feel like they have something to prove - the top boys (in general) just get on with it...

[dave]

Showing my ignorance here Si, but what is the DDT bit in "DDT – Dog Shooter" etc?

[Pantontino]

Ding Dong's Traverse - basically a right to left traverse of the main S Pen wall that can be linked into any of the up problems. The connection into Gnasher has not been done yet.

Cheers, Simon.

[dave]

So which one is Toe dragon? is that the one that is basically the same as Dirty Slapper?

So whats DDT into KOR get then? cheers.

[Doylo]

Think it gets v9, but i think its a bit easier. Simon you should check out some of Sam's limestone areas in North North Wales sometime. Pretty good venues, completely sandbagged though. Are these the final grades then or are you going to play around with them a bit more?

p.s. i'd like to see someone warm up on Chris' Link or Wonderwall

[dontfollowme]

is there a date for when the guide will be in the shops? TIA.

[Doylo]

pps. simon if you want everything to be consistent you should drop the grade of traverse into bladerunner to v8+ and the continuation reverse of SS to v9, well easy for v10!

C

[Stu Littlefair]

It seems to me that the top boys (say the likes of Malc, Gaskins et al) or the ordinary joe-keen boulderers don't feel the need to 'spray', yet the wannabees and not quite top league boys always want to make some noise- perhaps to make up for their lack of performance.....

Cheers, Simon.

It's a fair point, it's always us climbers with egos bigger than our forearms who stir up trouble. I just thought I'd point it out, that's all, some of you lads in N Wales can appear quite robust to a little lad like me :cry:

I'm not sure I'd warm up on any of the problems in your list. I haven't done a tenth of them, hell I haven't even made it to a tenth of the crags. N Wales is surely the place to be for bouldering in our fair isle.

[jonP]

N Wales is surely the place to be for bouldering in our fair isle.

Jesus christ, I nearly spilt me tea!  Anywhere that celebrates a shitty hole like Parisellas has got to be worth missing.

[Doylo]

Not everyone has got there cock up boring grit you know, overated!