[ferret]

posted a link here a while ago about a potential new line at secret garden. we eventually agreed it was lefthand man direct. however mike adams repeated the line and discussd it with ru its seams to be different. heres the run down of problems on this wall as i understand it:

lefthand man - sitstart , then pocket right hand move left to arete, slap groove, then pocket with right 7b+

lefthand man original way - same as before but keep righthand in pocket keep slapping with left up arete and pocket 7c+ (original method now eliminate with easier method)

lefthand man direct - same start then eliminate arete, up to slopes on wall, intermdiate gaston pinch with rh then slap again to pocket with rh 7c+ (basically LHM without arete)

new line - sitstart take rh pocket/slot of LHM with LH , small crimp intermediate then rh again to poor slope with good thumb catch, drag rf along shelf, lh intermediate slope then very hard msut be staic move to obvious pinch, flag rf then another hard static move rh to small sloping edge directly up, match lh on similar edge, lf in first pocket, lh to large sloper r of god pocket on LHM finish the same

middle man - start as dick williams till stood on ledge then traverse left to finish on previous problem 7c

dick williams - sit start then up blunt arete 7b+

mike having recently climbed all the lines on this face including mine says it is basically a direct sit start to middleman and his opinion, is the hardest line at probably 8a. despite the complicated description above this is a completely independant line using only 1 hold on LHM. mike and i reckon the best way to describe the wall would be to say there are 3 lines LHM left arete, Middleman direct middle of wall direct, and dick williams right hand arete. the otheres being basically eliminates variations or link ups of these 3 lines.

the sum of all this twaddle is that there is a new problem at secret garden its got great climbing, is not eliminte and around 8a so go and enjoy
there im tired now!

[Ru]

The way I climbed Left Hand Man Direct is not quite as you describe. I started right hand in the slot, but then did a long reach directly above this for a poor slope left hand, got the poor sloper with the thumb catch that you describe as an intermediate with my right hand, reached right again to the poor sloping edge, matched left on the similar edge then reached back left to the top pocket with my left hand, with left foot in the starting slot, as you describe on the 8a problem.

Your problem sounds like a right-hand sequence on LHM Direct, the main difference being starting with left hand in the slot instead of the right, but then using all the same holds above in a different order. I think this makes sense, but I'd like to be sure so that I can get the facts straight for when the time comes to review the guide.

[ferret]

after writing my own description i confused myself, all good climbing tho

[chris]

what?

can you create some kind of scrawl on a photo or something so we can see what goes where, as detailed as that description was, its far too complicated for my dumb ass :roll:

[Ru]

Ferret - did you get my PM?

[Ru]

Lets see if this works...



No. Oh well. I'm trying to link an image of a topo from a yahoo photo album, any tips??

[Bubba]

Don't think you can - but I can do it like this

[Bonjoy]

And what are the definative grades for these four probs then?

[Ru]

from left-right 7b+, 7c+/8a, 7c, 7b+

[Bonjoy]

Cheers

[chris]

cheers ru,

that helps loads, didnt realise the middle line was so hard...what is it 7c+ or 8a....go on stick your neck out :wink:

[Ru]

Dunno, 7c+ or 8a. I've done 8a's that felt easier and 7c+s that are harder. It needs more repeats.

[ferret]

inclined to agree bout grades, needs more ascents, and i aint climbed enuf 8a to make my coment worthwhile. photo was good idea tryed to fnd one myself.
i think the confusion lies in the fact that mike found an easier sequence to climb LHMD (sounds a little reachy) which he considered a quasi seperate line from what i did.
however ru seems to have climbd the same prob but with completely different sequence.
the truth is out there

[Johnny Brown]

seeing as there are only four lines for six probs - can I presume that left-hand man direct can be climbed 3 ways, all 7c+/8a ish, the only rule being shufflin left to the arete is right out?

Or is the new ferret line (I propose "Left-hand ferret'') to the right of LHMD and more like a 'direct start to middleman' as described? Do all lines but Dick Williams finish by using the big pocket?

[ferret]

left hand ferret, very funny!

didnt finish on the pocket, kinda to the right of it, wud be possible  to reach but no point as its easier to reach direct to a good sloper.

[Johnny Brown]

Nice - that makes it independent in my book.