[Greg C]

If the person/s who keep traversing the Anesthesia buttress at Woodwell using the crimp hand holds of Anesthesia as footholds reads this... can they please stop! This problem is hard enough without somebody shafting up the holds by standing on them for the sake of a V0 traverse.

I suspect its the same fool who does the same thing on Toms Buttress without clean hunks of earth of their boots!

[clm]

You cannot say that.  it is an arrogant and elitist thing to say.  you do not own the butress.  traversing at a low grade is perfectly acceptable thing for any climber to do whether thay be punter or wad.  if the hold gets damaged so be it.  it will not have been damaged by dubious practices like toproping, abseiling or chipping but by wear and tear.  and if it gets muddy then tough.
your activities at the crag are no more justifiable than any one else just because they are harder.

[Dave Westlake]

Shit, Greg, are you tryin to say that my tick of Anesthesia is invalid??

[Fingers of a Martyr]

Brace yourselves people...

...I actually agree with Chapman on this :shock:

Sure it's elitist, but so what. All he's asking is for someone to stop spoiling a classic V13 traverse. There's absolutley loads and loads and loads of easier problems to do but not many V13s which is why they should be preserved as best as possible. It's not much to ask; for people to avoid doing one (shit) problem so another (much better) one can be saved. FFS it's not as if it's some uber brilliant V0. :roll:

Erm and i don't think Greg is asking this guy to stop from a purely selfish point of view. Chapman knows he ain't gonna be cranking out Anesthesia any time soon. :wink:

edit: but calling them a fool etc probably isn't going to help :roll:

[clm]

its possible that the person does not know they are trampling on the holds - the fact that v13  is rare will be irrelevant to someone whos limit is v2. i maintain that you cannot state that one person cannot climb their problem while another can climb theirs. the crags have open access to everyone and a muddy soled individual though slightly unthinking is not doing anything that any of us have not or do not do - prpbably warming up in their trainers.  any climber has the right to climb any piece of rock as long as the ethical guidelines established by concensus amongst the climbing community are not breached.
as i said before - if the hold is muddy then your gonna have to deal with it and wipe it.

[chappers]

"classic V13 traverse"
not so sure that it looks that good really

[sharkey]

Is it the one that  Gaskins lurches across in Stick it, have to agree the climbing  may well be hard but it  doesn't exactly look classic, it's about 3inches off the deck!!

[dave]

I'm with greg on this one.

[Carnage]

You can ask people to stop doing it but I doubt it will make much difference. Pete Balint went as far as publishing the request in the Sydney Bouldering Guide for people to stop traversing a particular section of Sissy because the start hand hold on a classic V9 was getting trashed. Now its polished as fuck so no-one really took much notice.

[clm]

spot on gruff

[Obi-Wan is lost...]

Unless you are actually capable of climbing harder than V10 can you please stop walking past or near all the V10+ problems because you are making the problems harder by wearing away the ground under the sit starts. In fact it would be better for all 'real' climbers if you just stayed at home. Thanks very much.

[Greg C]

:huh:
I don't really think its a difficult concept - Stop doing one poor problem to preserve a much better problem. For those who don't rate Anesthesia... have you tried it to any extent? If not I suggest you don't comment until you have.

[webbo]

Maybe its Herr Brock getting his own back.

[clm]

greg you still have not got the point.
peopele are allowed to climb what they like when they like.
its not about the quality of one problem versus another, the difficulty of one problem versus another, the rarity of one problem verusus another.
its about people going out and enjoying the countryside in their own way when they want to
the person in question is only muddying some rock.  it would be equally annoying to find a problem with handholds and footholds completely caked in chalk to the point of being greasy and unusable.  in this situation what would you do?? i guess clean it off.
though thoughtless this scenario will happen in our sport due to its nature.  by all means politely ask someone to use clean shoes at woodwell.
it is not your place to ask someone (rudely) not to climb a particular problem.

[Greg C]

Thats your opinion. But I'm still going to ask.

[Huffy]

[unclesomebody]

not sure what you're saying huffy...
(a) about people going on record about this,
(b) you've heard that before
(c) or are you saying something more subtle... like the DICK part of dictaphone being the prominent bit.   :wink:

who knows.

not like there's a lack of rock in the world is there?

[Nigel]

I think the really serious issue here is being skirted. Namely that people shouldn't be going near Gaskins problems at all, never mind making direct contact with them. You wouldn't piss on the cross or have a wank at Mecca would you? Its fucking sacrilege! Please view only from a safe distance, that includes you Greg.

[Huffy]

...or (d) none of the above.

A dictaphone dictates, which is what is happening here...'no easy traversing please'  

I understand what Gregs getting at here but it's wrong to expect someone whos jus started climbing to see why Anesthesia is any better than the trav they're doing. To them its logical to stand on the holds and to you it's logical to hold them. Even if you explained to them that it takes bags of time and effort to climb a nails v13, why should they stop? No one really has more authority than anyone else when it comes to climbing on rocks that have stood for thousands of years (sorry about the cliche!)

Perhaps i'm wrong?

No serious offence intended here Greg...i don't know you and i'm definately not interested in calling someone i've never met before a dick, not my scene.


Huffy

[nik at work]

Got to agree with Huffy.

Having said that could people please stop standing on the left hand handholds of the submergence traverse as they are becoming rather polished...  

[AndyR]

I think the really serious issue here is being skirted. Namely that people shouldn't be going near Gaskins problems at all, never mind making direct contact with them. You wouldn't piss on the cross or have a wank at Mecca would you? Its fucking sacrilege! Please view only from a safe distance, that includes you Greg.

Quite right - people should be restricting  themselves to a quick genuflection and a dozen hail marys.

Altogether now, 'Hail Mary, Holy mother of Gaskins, grant me the steely fingered power of the Lord G himself......'

[Johnny Brown]

Having said that could people please stop standing on the left hand handholds of the submergence traverse as they are becoming rather polished...

No worries with that one - Dave has done it, which means it has been demoted from 'shit but hard' to 'too easy to bother muddyin your arse for'

[Greg C]

On a lighter note I have updated the Woodwell guide so its a little slicker and more in line with the Carrock mini guide style...

http://www.lakesbloc.co.uk/sei/s/1284/f70.pdf

[chris]

its a tricky one is this...you cant ask someone to stop traversing the anesthesia bloc! You could wait for the guy to turn up, explain what you mean and point him in the right direction of some beter problems of a similar grade....eveyone wins? Climbings al about having fun..right?

By the way those topos are really good greg, hopefully will be checkingout the south lakes in more detail soon, keep up the good work

[Graeme]

Bit off topic but whats the weather doing up there?
Will woodwell be dry at weekend?

[Doylo]

...or (d) none of the above.

A dictaphone dictates, which is what is happening here...'no easy traversing please'  

I understand what Gregs getting at here but it's wrong to expect someone whos jus started climbing to see why Anesthesia is any better than the trav they're doing. To them its logical to stand on the holds and to you it's logical to hold them. Even if you explained to them that it takes bags of time and effort to climb a nails v13, why should they stop? No one really has more authority than anyone else when it comes to climbing on rocks that have stood for thousands of years (sorry about the cliche!)

Perhaps i'm wrong?

No serious offence intended here Greg...i don't know you and i'm definately not interested in calling someone i've never met before a dick, not my scene.


Huffy

fight fight fight fight

[Huffy]

Watch it crimpyguts, i DO know you and those sick little fingers of yours don't scare me  :D

[dave]

Having said that could people please stop standing on the left hand handholds of the submergence traverse as they are becoming rather polished...

No worries with that one - Dave has done it, which means it has been demoted from 'shit but hard' to 'too easy to bother muddyin your arse for'

just wait till hasselhoff does it, it'll be down to 7a+.

[SA Chris]

Fair point about rock for all,but I think it would be ok if people were asked politely to clean shoes before getting on the rock, not called fools, as that doesn't help anyone.

[Greg C]

So you don't think some one who climbs with mud all over their feet could be considered as "foolish"?  :?

[Nigel]

More seriously than my last comments (although they were serious - Gaskins problems are for viewing only, and even then only with a qualified tour guide), the mud on the boots thing has been a big problem at "normal" Woodwell in the past. Many's the day where I turned up to find all the handholds on Beauty..., Screaming Slave, WTF!, Tom's Traverse, Crucifix Kiss, etc. all caked in mud.

Now no-one minds people using these as footholds, I often do when I'm warming up on the high traverse, but I don't cover them in cack. It does the rock no favours, and as the GREAT SIR RON once said: "What's the point of paying seventy quid for butyl rubber when you're climbing on sheep shit?"

I understand that Greg seemed a bit "dictaphone" (Huffy!   ), but wouldn't we all dictate that people cleaned their boots? OK Greg didn't put it quite like that but he's a passionate soul, perhaps if we all found ourselves in the position of turning up to our coveted project day after day to find that chickens had been over it we'd be more sympathetic.

No time to lose, I'm just off to traverse the top of the Joker block in muddy boots, I spotted a couple of good foot grips on it... :D

[SA Chris]

So you don't think some one who climbs with mud all over their feet could be considered as "foolish"?  :?

It's only foolish if someone has already respectfully pointed out the error of your ways and you still do it. I'm all for people giving their feet a good clean before stepping onto rock, whether it is a V0 limestone traverse or some seaside boulder that gets a good rinse on a daily basis. It's good for your climbing and good for the rock. I just think that insulting the perpetrator benefits no-one.

[Greg C]

Final point...
If your going take part in a sport off your own back you are obligated to have some understanding of what is and is not acceptable.
For instance if you were caught by a land owner (e.g. the Duchy of Lancaster or the National Trust) who specifically banned mountain biking in the area - which many of these organisations do - on your spanking new mountain bike you wouldn't have a leg to stand on! Saying I'm a beginner and didn't know any better simply wouldn't wash.

And I'm sorry if sounds confrontational to say they are foolish but I'm sticking to my guns on this one… cause that's what they are!

To be honest it was more a case of some one polishing/covering in rubber the hand holds which bothered me, as someone said previously as daft as it is to cover holds in mud at least mud brushes off.

[chris]

I do agree greg but you must assume this person doesn't know the score as he/she may only be a beginner, not everybody reads the mags, watches the vids and chats to lots of other climbers so this kind of behaviour will just seem natural.

Just explain your point to them in a civilised manner and im sure they'll take heed and leave the problem in question alone.

[Huffy]

I'm with you all the way about the clean shoes 110% boios bach!
jus checked out that top 50, some of the problems look wicked, (esp ?endangered species?)

[Nigel]

You'd probably crush Endagered in to the middle of next week - don't do it Huffy! Leave our problems intact!

[Johnny Brown]

as the GREAT SIR RON once said: "What's the point of paying seventy quid for butyl rubber when you're climbing on sheep shit?"

he also said:

At weekends in the peak I see holds chalked a few centimetres off the ground. More dwarfs must be climbing than I thought.

The man's a genius.

[SA Chris]

I do agree greg but you must assume this person doesn't know the score as he/she may only be a beginner, not everybody reads the mags, watches the vids and chats to lots of other climbers so this kind of behaviour will just seem natural.

Or even know what a climbing forum is, for that matter, so we are probably all wasting our time.

Greg, I get your point, but do you honestly think anyone who knows any better would do something like that deliberately? And most members of the public have some idea of what trespassing, keep out and private property mean, with respect to mountain biking, even if they are total beginners, but very few total beginner climbers even understand what V13 means, let alone how to recognise one.

[clm]

if its just rubber on the holds than thats even sillier.  you are rubbering up the holds lower down.  what are those dwarves gonna use when they head over from the peak?

[Huffy]

You're a fine one to talk lad, i feel for the white hold in the school that exploded as you unleashed the wrath of that bionic arm of doom.

Beast! :D

[clm]

greg please do not climb on any problem i am likely to attempt in future years as i do not want your karma on the holds.

[Fingers of a Martyr]

greg please do not climb on any problem i am likely to attempt in future years as i do not want your karma on the holds.

     

handbags at dawn people :wink:

[clm]

nobody had better try messin with me!! armed and dangerous.

[chappers]

children!!!!

seriously tho, wiping feet is one thing but rubber?! are you serious?! surely in most problems feet touch handholds. from looks of stick it godskins uses one hold half way with foot n hand.

[c.j.d.]

Jesus - some people really do not have the concept of 'fucking up something truly important' down at all, do they?  Maybe a few dollops of dog shit on your favourite project every Saturday could sway your point of view, eh kids?

[cofe]

<on fence> wouldn't you literally be walking across handholds of anesthatatatatat anyway cos the angle above is non-existent? i.e. its hardly a warm up V0 trav anyway.

[clm]

its not shit its rubber!!!

[Claire]

Greg you would be the person to ask. are there still acess problens at Woodwell o'ert road?? Cos im goin home on fri and livin 5 mins from woodwell and fancy a bit of limestone:)

[Greg C]

I'm afraid climbing is totally banned and this area of the crag.

[Claire]

really oh well thats a bit of a bugger. Ill not trek over that way then stick to the main area:) Cheers