[andy_e]

Okydoky, lets go. so what is the best way to spot when 1. the person is close to the ground and 2. when the person is getting high?
 :byebye:

[Bubba]

tradgirl.com used to have some nice pictures on spotting techniques, but now I can't find it.

This would be a good mini-article if anyone can get round to taking some pics next time they're out.

[fatneck]

1. Make sure the mat is correctly positioned and be prepared for the climber to pop (especially if the climber is trying a powerfull sit start). Look at the angles and think about the body position and tension, consider which contact point is likely to leave the rock and which direction the climber will fall in each intance.

2. Depends how high! Once a climber gets to a certain height there is not a lot the spotter can do without getting injured themselves. Again, consider the angles, pad appropriately and be attentive.

N.B. John "The Vermin" Sherman writes a great deal about the art of spotting and advocates throwing objects (e.g. a stick) at the likely falling off point and seeing where it lands as an aid to appropriate mat placement (apparently saved his bacon on Midnight Lightening but haven't had call to use it myself!)

Most important (from my own experience) is to have good communication and trust between a climber and a spotter/spotters. Having a good spot has got me up problems I never dreamt I'd have the cajones to do!

Here endeth the lecture (can you tell I've been injured by bad spotting?)

[Bubba]

I think the main thing to remember is that you're not trying to catch the boulderer but just steer them away from danger and onto the pad.

With low starts and roofs and stuff you tend to get under them more to offer more support and try to stop their head and back hitting the floor, but anything else just involves steering them onto the pad - I always aim to try and grab their waist.

[Fiend]

There is quite an art to spotting well...

1. Discuss the problem with the climber first - get them to explain their worries, likelihood of falling, what sort of spotting they want etc. Come to a mutual plan.

2. Make sure the mats are positioned right. Estimate where they are likely to fall off, but also where it would be most serious to fall off, and choose the right position. Use other mats and misc baggage e.g. passing sheep to bulk up angled or rocky landings.

3. Make sure you are positioned right. Obviously you can move easier than the mats can (although often moving a mat along mid-problem is useful too). Start in a position where you can spot the climber well, and keep moving in a position where you can spot the climber well.

4. Get in the appropriate stance, i.e. one that is ready for action. Legs and arms should be slightly bent, ready to move and catch and take weight. Legs should be in a stance of strength and balance. Fingers and thumbs should be close together, not splayed (consider what 11 stone of falling climber will do if it bends your thumb back). Focus on the climber not the view etc etc.

5. If the climber is going to fall, the main goal in spotting is NOT to catch them. It IS to guide them feet first onto the mat, keep their balance as best as possible, and ensure that precious bits like the head do not hit the ground. If you can take a bit of the weight as well, that is fine, but the main goal is to ensure they land safely on the mat.

6. How this is accomplished will vary from situation to situation. For example:
In a straight, controlled fall, it might be a matter of lightly grasping their body so they don't stumble.
For a low start, it might be catching their head/upper body whilst their feet swing into the ground.
For a very steep move with feet hooked, it might be actually pulling their feet out/down when they come off.
For an explosive power move, it might be standing well behind them ensuring their momentum doesn't take them way out from the crag.
For a really awkward landing, it might involve pushing them in mid-air so they land on the mat.
For a big highball, it will usually be guiding them onto the mat as normal but obviously taking into account higher impact force and a more difficult trajectory.

7. Bear in mind that in some situations it will be really hard to spot well, and in some situations if a climber comes off they will almost certainly be injured - this is what will have been discussed beforehand. As a spotter, all you can do is the best you can, and sometimes that will be reducing injury rather than preventing it, but that in itself is well worth spotting attentively for.

[AndyR]

There is quite an art to spotting well...

1. Discuss the problem with the climber first - get them to explain their worries, likelihood of falling, what sort of spotting they want etc. Come to a mutual plan.

This all seems a bit slapdash - personally, I tend to take my laptop to the crag and perform a risk-assessment with ballistic analyis before I even look at a problem.  I then make my spotter (and back-up spotter) read through the problem-failure mitigation measures and they give a quick run through in powerpoint of the likely scenarios - then and only then will my hands touch rock.

[r-man]

I've always wondered if for highball problems it might be worth using one mat (assuming you have more than one) to spot with. As has previously been mentioned, once the climber gets to a certain height, there aint much you can do, and though you might raise your arms and shout encouragingly "Go for it! I've got you!" in all likelihood if they fall you're just going to be trying to protect yourself.  :wink:  Using a mat would prevent personal injury and absorb some of the impact for the falling climber, whilst also doing the important job of directing (or deflecting!) them onto the mat.

I guess it depends how many extra mats you have though. If there are just a two or three I guess it's probably better just to maximise floor coverage and keep on with those encouraging arms...

[fatneck]

You can go too far with the mats. There's a video on the Petzyl website (I think) of Daniel Dulac (I think) breaking his ankle on Evilution (I think) as a result of landing badly between stacked pads....

Well, I think so anyway...

[r-man]

This all seems a bit slapdash - personally, I tend to take my laptop to the crag and perform a risk-assessment with ballistic analyis before I even look at a problem.  I then make my spotter (and back-up spotter) read through the problem-failure mitigation measures and they give a quick run through in powerpoint of the likely scenarios - then and only then will my hands touch rock.

Still a little irresponsible. What about checking their medical history, interviewing previous spotters and making sure they aren't wearing any sharp objects, just for starters...

Remember, climbing isn't a game.

[Falling Down]

[/quote]

This all seems a bit slapdash - personally, I tend to take my laptop to the crag and perform a risk-assessment with ballistic analyis before I even look at a problem.  I javascript:emoticon(':lol:')
Laughingthen make my spotter (and back-up spotter) read through the problem-failure mitigation measures and they give a quick run through in powerpoint of the likely scenarios - then and only then will my hands touch rock.[/quote]

 

You forgot the signing of the disclaimer and witnessing in triplicate by passing ramblers...

[Obi-Wan is lost...]

I think the next generation of 'pads' will actually have nice sharp pointy sticks, shards of glass, 6 inch nails, stuff like that, that way even if your selected problem is a V0 over a grassy meadow you can regrade it and claim a new ascent with a 'danger mat' in place. Maybe you could give the spotters catapults, pea shooters, stuff like that, to add an extra element too. :up:

[Fiend]

Comedy....bronze. When's the stand-up show coming, Andy and R-man??


I'm hoping that you're just being tits and I don't actually have to explain to you that what I wrote is just an explicit way of describing what people do anyway e.g. "the middle bit looks a bit sketchy, make sure I don't hit that rock" or "top out is quite high, shall I move the mats for that bit"....bletch.

[Falling Down]

Comedy....

Has never really been your strong point has it?

[account_inactive]

Comedy....bronze. When's the stand-up show coming, Andy and R-man??


I'm hoping that you're just being tits and I don't actually have to explain to you that what I wrote is just an explicit way of describing what people do anyway e.g. "the middle bit looks a bit sketchy, make sure I don't hit that rock" or "top out is quite high, shall I move the mats for that bit"....bletch.

Are you on the blob? :wink:

[Fiend]

Balls to you all  

[AndyR]

Balls to you all  

Don't be like that.
C'mon, tell us all about your best/favourite spot - maybe Bubba could set up another group in this forum dedicated to spotting?

[account_inactive]

I'm a fan of the close American spot

[Jim]

you can still get a good spot from high up as long as they fall fairly straight at you and the landings ok. Basically putting your palms up and almost catching their arse and lowering them onto the mat, well you don't really catch them but its all about aiding the decceleration to take the impact out of the climbers ankles

[Ru]

I'm a fan of the close American spot

Is that similar to a Yorkshire power spot?

"'Kin 'ell I was strong then!"

"Eye, lad, you felt strong too."

[dave]

Okydoky, lets go. so what is the best way to spot when 1. the person is close to the ground

hands stay in pockets, and when they land be sure to ask if they are ok.

2. when the person is getting high?
 :byebye:

thats when hands come out of pockets, do what you want just make sure you get out of the way at the last minute when they come off, or you might get hurt. A bit like at school when the girls had to catch a ball.

[Blunk]

Other things to watch out for are getting too far inside the climber (hmmmm) and feet bicycling when the climber wings out unexpectedly. I got a proper flurry of kicks to the face one time spotting a beginner who panicked when his feet came off. Broke my glasses even.

Also, getting smashed in the head by a flying elbow, feet crushed, and cactus in arse. It's hell being the biggest guy around and having everyone ask for a spot on their desperate project!

[Carnage]

Watch where your knees are as well. There's nothing worse than a spotters knee in the back of the head or in your back (well, maybe a punch in the bollocks.) if you come off. Also, mind out for cut loose moves. Whilst, like Blunk says, you're likely to get a kick in the head there also the potential that you may have helped to kill the swing - Cue lots of heckling about dabs.  :wink:

And don't spot like a friend of mine used to. His method of keeping you upright was to slam you into the wall as you landed. Nice.

[petje]

I read the newest urbanclimber magazine from the states. There was  a good article about spotting. Made total sense and good explanation of the art of spotting. among others:

keep your mouth shut. getting a flying foot or hand in your opened mouth can do much more damage than when you keep it closed.

Communication. talk about the spotting, position etc. before attempting the problem.

With bouldering, every fall is a grounder! Take it serious!

[Fiend]

Communication. talk about the spotting, position etc. before attempting the problem.

Told you

gruff, I dunno, are you as much of a grumpy git?

[Jim]

If there's any sort of grumpy old git competition launched round here, I want to be top of the list!

[webbo]

If there's any sort of grumpy old git competition launched round here, I want to be top of the list!

how can you qualify for a grumpy old git competion.your not even middle aged.

fuck me!!!!kids!!!!

[Bubba]

None of you have got any chance at being king grump while Dense is about.

[Fiend]

True true Still some good contenders tho.

[Jim]

If there's any sort of grumpy old git competition launched round here, I want to be top of the list!

how can you qualify for a grumpy old git competion.your not even middle aged.

fuck me!!!!kids!!!!

its a state of mind.
Whilst Dense is out of the country there looks like theres a battle for self proclaimed king grump then?

[webbo]

i'm not a gump,just a miserable old twat.

[r-man]

Found this on planetfear:

http://planetfear.com/article_detail.asp?a_id=473

I can't be bothered to read all of it, but hey, there it is.

Couple of bits I did notice:

The first rule of spotting, as in first aid, is to look out for your own safely.

Keeping your thumbs in line with your fingers and using the palm of your hand will protect against injuring your thumbs.

Huh, that makes sense. Might try and remember to do that.  

but for redirecting a climber on a roughly vertical move, a much better choice is to go for the backside. With a buttock in each hand, it is surprising how easy it is to redirect a climber towards their bouldering pad without them slipping from your grasp.

Not too keen on this idea. I for one, have a sweaty arse. This leads me to believe that other people may have similarly slimey posteriors. And bum sludge just aint good for hanging slopers...  :roll:

Once the climber has landed, it is likely that they will exhibit the urge to bounce off the mat and into some nearby boulder, tree, or worse still - cacti. A spotter should be ready to absorb some of that force – especially if there are any obvious hazards nearby.

 :shock: Really? Come on, the main joy of spotting is saving the climber from a hideous deck out, then throwing them at a groin-high tree stump...

Only once you have covered all the possible landing zones with a single layer of pads is it worth piling them on top of each other

   Is that so? I'm not convinced. If you know where you are going to land, stack em and stack em high.

[dave]

next week's article: Egg-Sucking For Matriarchal Geriatrics.